Direction of Crank Seal?? i think I messed up...

[KANE]

Hey to all,
So I just replaced my timing chain, Timing Cover, water pump, Oil Pan Gasket and cleaned and painted everything, fired it up and.......unfortunately it leaks oil....only when running and leaks more when you rev it. Seems to be coming from the Crank Seal.

After looking into it, I may have installed the crank seal wrong. the "ford" TC Cover had it installed from the back side so I did the same on the New Dorman Cover. Also...I didn't lube the seal...I know I'm a dummy....but can anyone tell me if the seal goes on the outside or inside..and by not lubing the seal, did I smoke it? Sucks that I have to do this over again, but at least it will clean and bolts will come right out!

Thanks!!
Mike

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, on this cover you see the seal is installed from the inside, with the flat part of the seal forward.
If the balancer is not smooth where it goes into the cover it could damage the seal.
It is probably not a lack of lube.
Some engines seal better if you don't tighten the timing cover bolts until the balancer is installed, do the balancer will determine the position of the cover. Good luck

 

[B RON CO]

Also of it is the balancer seal the oil usually get thrown in all directions around the cover.
A drip from the pan to cover usually just drips down.
Good luck

 

[KANE]

Also of it is the balancer seal the oil usually get thrown in all directions around the cover.
A drip from the pan to cover usually just drips down.
Good luck

Thx!!
The Pic is really helpful...I remember thinking that the seal just barely fit on the inside....but it did fit. I got the cover from Summit and the salesman checked with the tech and said it was supposed to go on the outside. I wish I asked before...live and learn! Also my Balancer was super smooth with no grooves.
The oil is definitely spattered about but the constant drip is directly under the front curve of the Oil Pan.

I'll find out soon enough.

Thanks again!

 

[Broncobowsher]

I recall that the covers were made both ways. Some install from the inside, some from the outside.

But if you look at the seal there is a garter spring putting tension on the rubber. That spring gets oiled (it is inside the engine).

 

[blubuckaroo]

Some engines seal better if you don't tighten the timing cover bolts until the balancer is installed, do the balancer will determine the position of the cover. Good luck

^This is important!
The timing cover has nothing to align it. If you tighten the cover without the balancer, the balancer won't be centered in the seal, and will usually leak.

 

[Broncobowsher]

^This is important!
The timing cover has nothing to align it. If you tighten the cover without the balancer, the balancer won't be centered in the seal, and will usually leak.

Some have dowels to align the cover to the block. I remember Explorer motors are like this. But the early stuff, you need the damper installed (even if only temporary) for seal alignment as the cover is bolted in place.

 

[bronconut73]

..... mine had dowels.
But my Windsor Block is a '78, maybe that is new enough of a casting for those dowels.
I remember being happy to see the dowels there because my balancer was still in mid shipment when I was installing the timing chain cover.

 

[KANE]

^This is important!
The timing cover has nothing to align it. If you tighten the cover without the balancer, the balancer won't be centered in the seal, and will usually leak.

Yes, this could be one of the other reasons why its leaking...no dowels and I did move a bit after it was on to make the timing cover line up with the block. I also had the oil pan out when I installed so there was quite a bit of movement.

I'll post up a pic when I get the new parts to make sure everything is right....I like to not do this again!

Thanks!

 

[DirtDonk]

Did your crank snout have a slinger on it? Oil slingers are there to allow a little bit to get to the back of the seal to keep it lubed (plenty of oil vapor in an engine) but to keep most of the splash and slosh from hitting the back of the seal directly.

If it's not there I would not have thought it would leak instantly like yours, but maybe it's that important. Or maybe it did get nicked or is offset due to lack of dowels.

My '71 had a dowel or two when I pulled it apart the first time. Some engines, like the 460's, state flat out that you need to install the damper before tightening so it will be centered. Ours don't normally need that step, and don't we even have some bolts that you can't really get to easily when the damper is installed anyway?

Paul

 

[69_Sport]

One trick I picked up from an experienced Ford mechanic is to use a 429/460 crank spacer when installing the timing cover on an older small block without locating dowels. The spacer simulates having the balancer/damper in place so the seal is centered on the crank. After tightening down all the timing cover bolts, you remove the spacer and install the balancer.

 

[DirtDonk]

That's what it was with the 460's! Not that you installed the damper first, but you installed the separate hub. I did not remember that pretty big detail.
Thanks.

Paul

 

[KANE]

If I'm not centered...which is a definite possibility, can I loosen the bolts and try to recenter? Or if I'm that far in just go all the way and replace the seal. I'm still unclear about the direction of the seal, inside the TC cover or Outside??
Thanks!

 

[Rustytruck]

Make sure your pvc system is working properly so you dont build pressure in the crankcase and push out oil past the seals.

 

[69_Sport]

If I'm not centered...which is a definite possibility, can I loosen the bolts and try to recenter? Or if I'm that far in just go all the way and replace the seal. I'm still unclear about the direction of the seal, inside the TC cover or Outside??
Thanks!

You shouldn't be able to move the cover now that the sealant has cured. Just loosening the bolts won't be enough.
I hope you used rtv or some sort of sealant to install the cover. If not, then that's a leak source as well. You will need to remove the cover, clean off the gasket surfaces, get a new gasket, and do it over again.
If you post a pic of the crank seal, we can tell whether it goes inside or outside the cover. The two types are different.

 

[bbaltered]

If you didn't lube the seal probably smoked it .

 

[KANE]

I coated both sides of the Gasket with the permatex gasket brush on stuff. This stuff worked great.
I did not lube the seal at all...things you learn after!!

I should get the parts today and I’m gonna dive in tonight and tomorrow. I’ll post a pic of the seal and timing cover...I really appreciate the help!!

 

[KANE]

Ok parts just arrived. I ordered another Timing cover...another story....but here is the cover and the seal with the flange is the one that came with the TC...same as the one I installed. The other seal is the Felpro seal that came with the gasket kit that I bought. Which seal do you think I should use and which side of the cover should it go? Thanks so much!!

 

[blubuckaroo]

Ok parts just arrived. I ordered another Timing cover...another story....but here is the cover and the seal with the flange is the one that came with the TC...same as the one I installed. The other seal is the Felpro seal that came with the gasket kit that I bought. Which seal do you think I should use and which side of the cover should it go? Thanks so much!!

The one without the flange is made so the seal can be replaced without pulling off the timing cover. I've used both types without issue.
The seal should be installed so the cuff spring is toward the engine.

 

[KANE]

The one without the flange is made so the seal can be replaced without pulling off the timing cover. I've used both types without issue.
The seal should be installed so the cuff spring is toward the engine.

Ok so Flange on the outside of the timing cover? THX!

As far as lube for the seal, just motor oil around it? sorry for the simple questions!