Do the C4 and 4R70W use the same starter?

[price209]

Im getting ready to do a 4R70W swap in my rig and am trying to round up all the parts (Ok most of the parts) I will need prior to starting the install. Will I need a new starter, or will the starter on my C4 work? Im a newbie and this is going to be my first big venture on the rig. I already have the tranny(with dipstick)/controller, an np205 to bolt to up to it until I can afford an Atlas, and am doing a lift at the same time so I am going to order or modify/rebuild my drivelines. I know I have to fab a crossmember and am putting in a new floor shifter but are there any other parts I am missing???

 

[Broncobowsher]

Same starter

 

[Viperwolf1]

Same starter.

You can make the column shifter work.

 

[DirtDonk]

Like they said, same starter. But in case yours does not line up perfectly anymore and makes that nasty grinding noise (that sounds like a Chevy with a mis-aligned starter!) you can get one of the spacers that might help. They're about 1/8" thick or so.

Of course, it's not guaranteed that you need to space the starter out, but if you get some funny noises you can always add a washer or two to see if that helps. If so, then get the spacer for a more solid fit.

More than likely you'll be fine without it, but I've seen/heard a lot more misaligned Ford starters lately for some reason. More in the last 2 years in fact, than in the previous 40!

Anyway, just wanted to mention that in case it comes up.

Paul

 

[flousberg]

I tried the same starter for the C4 and the hi torque. Both worked the first couple starts then sounded real bad. My flexplate was a little worn, so i even pulled the tranny and replaced it, same deal. I went to the JY and got an explorer starter and has worked like a charm. When you look at the starters, they are not the same. Works for a lot of people, but did not work on my 2000 4r70W. I have two brand new ones in the garage I would like to sell.

 

[Viperwolf1]

I tried the same starter for the C4 and the hi torque. Both worked the first couple starts then sounded real bad. My flexplate was a little worn, so i even pulled the tranny and replaced it, same deal. I went to the JY and got an explorer starter and has worked like a charm. When you look at the starters, they are not the same. Works for a lot of people, but did not work on my 2000 4r70W. I have two brand new ones in the garage I would like to sell.

What was different between the starters Frank?

 

[flousberg]

It was hard to tell, but the distance between the bolt holes and the center shaft was ever so slightly different. You could only see it holding the two together.

Dan runs the original starter he had with his C4, no problems. I tried one of those, no luck. I then got the part number off here for the high torque starter. Same thing. it would mesh fine the first couple starts then just sounded bad. I pulled tranny and put a new flex plate on because the gears worn. Same issue. Finally I went to the JY after getting tired of spend a couple hundred dollars. Grabbed one off a V8 explorer and it meshes perfectly. I am not sure why they did not work for me, but I suggest getting the explorer one since it matches the tranny. Dan has the exact same engine and tranny as me, the only difference is his might be a 97 4R70W. No clue, but what a pain.

 

[broncnaz]

The problem probably stems from the great chinese machining that is done on some of these "new" starters.

 

[flousberg]

Could be, but I went though three in total. One was a reman Remy?

 

[Ourobos]

C4s came in 164 tooth big bellhousing and 157 tooth small bellhousing. I'm not specifically sure if any of the Broncos had the smaller setup, but the larger setup should be IDENTICAL to the 4r70w bellhousing bolt pattern for the starter, if that helps.

 

[flousberg]

I thought of that and counted the teeth. I have a 164 tooth. I have no idea, but it doesnt work on mine.

 

[Ourobos]

Did you put the block plate between the transmission and engine block?

 

[Viperwolf1]

C4s came in 164 tooth big bellhousing and 157 tooth small bellhousing. I'm not specifically sure if any of the Broncos had the smaller setup, but the larger setup should be IDENTICAL to the 4r70w bellhousing bolt pattern for the starter, if that helps.

Starters for both the 164 and 157 tooth C4s are the same. The difference is the location of the bolt holes in the bellhousing and the blockplate.

 

[flousberg]

Did you put the block plate between the transmission and engine block?

Yes i did

 

[Ourobos]

Starters for both the 164 and 157 tooth C4s are the same. The difference is the location of the bolt holes in the bellhousing and the blockplate.

Yes, that's what I was getting it. It's the bellhousing that determines the starters orientation to the flexplate.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Yes, that's what I was getting it. It's the bellhousing that determines the starters orientation to the flexplate.

And the plate is what locates it precisely. The stamping is very precise for the dowels and the starter hole. Without it the starter isn't spaced precisely the right distance from the crankshaft since the starter mounting holes have plenty of clearance to them.