EFI problem, no fuel

[ared77]

I've got an EB with EFI and the Wild Horses 23 gallon tank that has the fuel pump inside tank. Yesterday evening I drove it about a mile to the gym. About an hour later, try to leave and it just cranks but won't fire up. Appears to be a no fuel situation. What's throwing me though is that when key is turned on I can hear whirl of the electric pump. I know it's possible the filter is plugged up but I really doubt it. I have not had a chance to disconnect the filter yet to see if fuel comes out when it's cranked. I'll do that soon.

My question is "Is it possible a hose or pick-up has come loose from the pump inside the tank that could cause this?" Or does a pump inside the tank even need a pick-up? I don't know enough about how it's made in there.%)

Thanks.

 

[Timmy390]

How do you know you have no fuel at the rail? If you're running Ford EFI you need PIP to trigger the injectors. No PIP no fuel. I ran into this on my fresh build. Turned out the distributor went bad sitting on my workbench. Could be the ignition module as well. Again, no PIP no injector fire thus no fuel.

To verify the injectors are firing or not, you need a Noid light. I bought a set at HF but you can rent them at the parts stores too.

Could be the fuel regulator too.

Tim

 

[surfer-b]

"Is it possible a hose or pick-up has come loose from the pump inside the tank that could cause this?" Or does a pump inside the tank even need a pick-up

Not sure which EFI system you have, regardless, yes it very possible, and while you are at it add a fuel pressure gauge, it may save you some trouble later on

 

[ared77]

It does have a fuel pressure gauge, it stays at zero.

It's a Ford system. The code reader said 11, which is supposed to mean all OK.

I did notice the orange "engine" light on dash would flash once followed by five flashes. If that means anything.

 

[Viperwolf1]

The computer didn't get smart enough to look for fuel pressure until real late '90s or early '00s. If your efi system is earlier than that, the only thing the computer checks is voltage going to the pump.

If the gauge reads zero there's a good chance you just might not have fuel pressure. Open the line and see if it flows.

 

[DirtDonk]

The pickup in the tank is a sock filter attached literally to the bottom of the pump and sitting (theoretically) on the bottom of the tank. So for that, you're probably ok assuming you still have fuel?

What vintage is your tank? There were some about two years ago that had some sort of restriction in the pickup tube welded to the tank, but as far as I know that was only a very few and was corrected pretty quickly. Even if one of those however, the symptom was not that it would not start or run, but rather not flow enough to support higher horsepower engines or higher rpm/load running.
But if yours has been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years, it might be worth looking up the sales date.

Since you can hear the pump, then we know that the shuftoff switch is not activated. Seen them get kicked and shut off before.

There is a test you can do too, depending on which harness you have, that keeps the pump pumping all the time while you can watch gauges or fuel flow out of the hose. You might check in to this as well, if your initial findings don't lead to any solution.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[Viperwolf1]

The short hose from the pump to the tank bulkhead connector tube has been known to slip off. This is because there is no barb on that tube.

 

[ared77]

Thanks guys. Those last two answers from Paul and Viperwolf1 really help me to understand what might be happening. Thanks to all who replied!

I bought this Bronco already fixed up about a month ago and have already bugged the PO on a couple of occasions so I hate to ask about age of tank, etc.

I believe what has happened is the hose Viperwolf1 mentioned has come off. That's what I suspected in my original question and it seems to make sense. I took a Chevy guy (owns a '67 396 Chevell) for a ride and hit second gear way too hard! This was about a week before this no start situation, but may have been a contributing factor.

Yesterday I finally got time to get under it and see what it would take to drop the tank. Because of the lines that attach just above the frame rail and my lack of proper tools, etc I think I'm going to take it to a shop where it can be removed using a lift.

When it's finally fixed I'll let you know what I found. And I'm going to try to stop driving it on the street like it's a 60's Gasser!%);D

 

[DirtDonk]

...When it's finally fixed I'll let you know what I found. And I'm going to try to stop driving it on the street like it's a 60's Gasser!%);D

Hah! Good sensible direction I'd say. But it is fun though, ain't it?;D
With a squishy long travel truck suspension it can really lift that front end.

Too bad you have to pay a shop to do some detective work, but at least you have a direction for them to take for starters.
And with things disconnected, it's actually pretty straightforward getting things down and out.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[xcntrk]

The tank is a new generation 23-gal Sherman EFI Tank with the high-flow pump (255 LPH) and track mounting system. It connects to the BC-Broncos deluxe steel fuel line kit with high pressure fuel filter and filter quick disconnect. From there the hard-lines interface in the engine bay with BC-Bronco Braided Stainless fuel line kit, with fuel pressure gauge, feeding Mustang style fuel rail.

The pressure at the rail gauge should be 40psi. If not then the pump isn’t supplying pressure or there’s an obstruction/open line between the pump and gauge. Since you’re not leaking fuel that can only be in the tank.

The tune on the computer (EEC) has the pump priming for 3-seconds (as opposed to the stock 1 sec prime). So a simple turn of the key and you have 3-sec of diagnostic time to “hear” the pump running. Also as suggested you can run the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) EEC diagnostics test and pull any codes. This test also cycles the pump for a longer period of time as well and should give you more opportunity to monitor the fuel pressure gauge to confirm pressure.

I would suggest doing 2 things that are relatively low impact and you can do without any special tools. First is to run the EEC diagnostic test. The supplied code-reader and instruction book is all you need to run the KOEO test. The procedure is in the book. Second is to pull the fuel filter. It’s on a quick disconnect that you can release with no tools, just your hands. You will get messy, all the fuel in the rail between the filter and engine will gravity drain out when the filter is removed. This will give you a good chance to determine if the filter is plugged. You can also hook a hose up to the supply coming out of the tank and run/prime the pump to see if any fuel comes out. This should help diagnose/confirm if the issue is in the tank.


Good luck!

 

[chuzie]

Excellent post Xc. Props!

 

[toddz69]

The tank is a new generation 23-gal Sherman EFI Tank with the high-flow pump (255 LPH) and track mounting system. It connects to the BC-Broncos deluxe steel fuel line kit with high pressure fuel filter and filter quick disconnect. From there the hard-lines interface in the engine bay with BC-Bronco Braided Stainless fuel line kit, with fuel pressure gauge, feeding Mustang style fuel rail.

The pressure at the rail gauge should be 40psi. If not then the pump isn’t supplying pressure or there’s an obstruction/open line between the pump and gauge. Since you’re not leaking fuel that can only be in the tank.

The tune on the computer (EEC) has the pump priming for 3-seconds (as opposed to the stock 1 sec prime). So a simple turn of the key and you have 3-sec of diagnostic time to “hear” the pump running. Also as suggested you can run the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) EEC diagnostics test and pull any codes. This test also cycles the pump for a longer period of time as well and should give you more opportunity to monitor the fuel pressure gauge to confirm pressure.

I would suggest doing 2 things that are relatively low impact and you can do without any special tools. First is to run the EEC diagnostic test. The supplied code-reader and instruction book is all you need to run the KOEO test. The procedure is in the book. Second is to pull the fuel filter. It’s on a quick disconnect that you can release with no tools, just your hands. You will get messy, all the fuel in the rail between the filter and engine will gravity drain out when the filter is removed. This will give you a good chance to determine if the filter is plugged. You can also hook a hose up to the supply coming out of the tank and run/prime the pump to see if any fuel comes out. This should help diagnose/confirm if the issue is in the tank.


Good luck!

Wait - you sold your truck to him??

Todd Z.

 

[xcntrk]

Wait - you sold your truck to him??

Todd Z.

Not my truck, it's his truck

 

[chuzie]

You had me. Hook line and sinker!

 

[ared77]

Sorry. I forgot to follow up on what I found causing the problem.%)

As I first expected, it turned out the hose inside the tank had slipped off the tube that connects to outlet of tank. As manufactured, it had a single clamp at each end of the hose. We bought 3 new clamps and installed one where hose attaches to pump and used two on the upper end of hose, where it attaches to the tube.

Runs great again. I love this thing! ;D

Thanks to all.

 

[DirtDonk]

thanks for the follow-up ared. Good to know it was something simple. Glad you got it fixed and updated with more clamps.

Did anyone ever answer the question about the sequence of the flashing check-engine light? There are codes, and you should be able to find them online or one of the guys here.
Anyone know what 1+5 flashes are for?

Have fun driving it again.

Paul

 

[Viperwolf1]

It does have a fuel pressure gauge, it stays at zero.

It's a Ford system. The code reader said 11, which is supposed to mean all OK.

I did notice the orange "engine" light on dash would flash once followed by five flashes. If that means anything.

thanks for the follow-up ared. Good to know it was something simple. Glad you got it fixed and updated with more clamps.

Did anyone ever answer the question about the sequence of the flashing check-engine light? There are codes, and you should be able to find them online or one of the guys here.
Anyone know what 1+5 flashes are for?

Have fun driving it again.

Paul

Yes. I assume the flashes happened when he was trying to pull the codes. The initial flash is a series of really fast flashes. All the ECMs do that. Then there are 2 flashes for code 11, which will repeat followed by a separator flash, and more flashes for any memory codes. He either didn't wait long enough for the memory codes or they didn't happen for some reason.