Front suspension

[Chris99]

Ok so I have some questions about front suspension setup. I think I want to run a track bar riser. If I don't have the original trac bar bracket on the frame or a drop bracket is this not going to work with the riser?
I was also thinking of running the james duff trex long radius arm and there heim steering setup. Any options or advice would be appreciated thanks.

 

[thegreatjustino]

If I don't have the original trac bar bracket on the frame or a drop bracket is this not going to work with the riser?

You have no bracket on the frame whatsoever? You won't be able to install the trac bar at all if you don't.

 

[Yeller]

Track bar riser vs drop down bracket always drives better. If you don’t have a frame bracket, it’s an opportunity to make it what it needs to be.

 

[joebronco73]

Track bar riser vs drop down bracket always drives better. If you don’t have a frame bracket, it’s an opportunity to make it what it needs to be.

Second this - riser will serve you better.

 

[Chris99]

You have no bracket on the frame whatsoever? You won't be able to install the trac bar at all if you don't.

I have a bracket but the previous owner cut the old one off and welded a drop bracket on. My question is now that I don't have a stock bracket what should I do because nobody sells stock brackets. You need a stock bracket to run a riser right? Maybe get a drop bracket and drill a hole higher up on the bracket?

 

[Chris99]

Track bar riser vs drop down bracket always drives better. If you don’t have a frame bracket, it’s an opportunity to make it what it needs to be.

How would you do that? You need a stock bracket right?

 

[DirtDonk]

First, at least for a temporary measure, your particular bracket looks like it could be drilled with a hole higher up.
You wouldn’t want to drill it until you have your other stuff set up, so that you can make sure they put track bar and drag remain parallel.
Second, you probably can find a stock track bar bracket, or at least an aftermarket approximation of the stock one.
Lots of metal fab companies, like RuffStuff Specialties make custom frame brackets, such as radius arm, and trackbar brackets.

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and I disagree with the statement that a riser always drives better than a drop.
That might be true when everything is set up properly, but I’ve driven some pretty crappy handling riser-equipped trucks, and some pretty great handling drop-equipped trucks.
So as always… “it depends“ comes into play.
Depending on lots of things!

By the way, was that you in another thread talking about dropping the suspension down to stock, or near stock height?
If so, I think you should probably ignore the riser.
Sounds like that wasn’t you though, since you’re even contemplating a riser and long arms.

 

[Yeller]

How would you do that? You need a stock bracket right?

You could use it as is with a drop pitman arm. That being said, I’m a fan of using a riser on the axle, flipping the tie rod on top of the knuckle and using the stock bracket or a rendition of one by reworking the existing bracket.

Disclaimer: if what I said made no sense….a long dissertation ensuing

I do understand that what is a simple fabrication to me is like discussing the spacial time continuum of the trajectory of arc that the Earth, Moon, Venus, and Mars make as they circumnavigate the universe to others. Not that any of that is bad but understand we are all different folks with different experiences and different abilities. No shame in any question, thoughts or needing explanation. Even saying I don’t understand or that is beyond my abilities is all good. We will help you figure out the best solution for you, your vehicle, your abilities, and maybe even your budget.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, maybe not budget…

 

[Chris99]

First, at least for a temporary measure, your particular bracket looks like it could be drilled with a hole higher up.
You wouldn’t want to drill it until you have your other stuff set up, so that you can make sure they put track bar and drag remain parallel.
Second, you probably can find a stock track bar bracket, or at least an aftermarket approximation of the stock one.
Lots of metal fab companies, like RuffStuff Specialties make custom frame brackets, such as radius arm, and trackbar brackets.

Ok well I want to replace the bracket that on there now because it looks kinda rough. I will check that out I looked on alot of the early bronco vendors and they only have drop brackets.

 

[Chris99]

Oh, and I disagree with the statement that a riser always drives better than a drop.
That might be true when everything is set up properly, but I’ve driven some pretty crappy handling riser-equipped trucks, and some pretty great handling drop-equipped trucks.
So as always… “it depends“ comes into play.
Depending on lots of things!

By the way, was that you in another thread talking about dropping the suspension down to stock, or near stock height?
If so, I think you should probably ignore the riser.
Sounds like that wasn’t you though, since you’re even contemplating a riser and long arms.

Ok what would cause a riser to be a problem? Everything I how been looking up makes it sound like a riser is better.
No I don't think so I talk to you in a thread about my 3.5 lift kit and setting everything to ride height. What would you want to set up first ? The radius arms? I'm just trying to plan it out before I order anything.
If I have a 3.5 lift do long arms help get better caster?
Also what are your thoughts on tie rod over vs under?

 

[Chris99]

You could use it as is with a drop pitman arm. That being said, I’m a fan of using a riser on the axle, flipping the tie rod on top of the knuckle and using the stock bracket or a rendition of one by reworking the existing bracket.

Disclaimer: if what I said made no sense….a long dissertation ensuing

I do understand that what is a simple fabrication to me is like discussing the spacial time continuum of the trajectory of arc that the Earth, Moon, Venus, and Mars make as they circumnavigate the universe to others. Not that any of that is bad but understand we are all different folks with different experiences and different abilities. No shame in any question, thoughts or needing explanation. Even saying I don’t understand or that is beyond my abilities is all good. We will help you figure out the best solution for you, your vehicle, your abilities, and maybe even your budget.

Ok that what I'm thinking of doing. I want to replace the old track bar bracket it looks kinda bad and I what to make it look cleaner.
I already replaced all the body panel and I think I did a pretty good job . I feel comfortable doing body panels alignment. It just suspension geometry and set up I'm new to but I'm pretty sure I can figure out just need some knowledge and help.

 

[Yeller]

Happy to help with that. Parts are available so it takes a lot of the calculations out of the equation. I didn’t want to poke at the ugly on your frame bracket, I do try to not offend about appearance of work, I’ve done some ugly work and don’t like it being poked at if it works lol.

Here’s the Riser Bracket for the axle. Tom’s has this as well.

Here’s the Frame Bracket there is a difference in this from 76/77 and earlier models, I can’t remember off hand what that difference is other than the height of the hole.

The other item that need to happen is TRO (Tie Rod Over knuckle). Here’s a link to a good discussion with photos, someone may have a better one. Lot of debate about the correct way to do this, I prefer the hour glass method, rather than the taper bushings, IMO the bushings are just something to cause headache down the road. Most of our vendors offer the reamer for this, but any 7* reamer will work.

The goal is that the track bar and drag link are parallel. With a downward angle that is close to stock.

Hope this helps.

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok what would cause a riser to be a problem?

Not a problem now. When I was thinking that was you that was going to lower your truck, I thought that could be the case.
A riser is not desirable, nor might it even fit, with less than 3 1/2 inches of lift.

What would you want to set up first ? The radius arms? I'm just trying to plan it out before I order anything.

It’s all a system. Everything gets set up first!
When you’re making lots of modifications like this, mock up is the key. And mock up is all about making everything work together.

If I have a 3.5 lift do long arms help get better caster?

No matter what the lift, long arms usually have more caster built into them. But with this much work, you should probably do a cut and turn.
It’s the only way to guarantee proper caster AND proper pinion angle at the same time.
You could certainly keep adding correction, such as the radius arms, offset C-bushings, offset ball joint eccentrics, and whatever else.
But at some point, your front pinion angle becomes untenable and the u-joint binds up.
Basically negating four-wheel-drive.

Also what are your thoughts on tie rod over vs under?

I only like it if it’s needed.
Or if using a track bar riser…

 

[toddz69]

From another thread, here's a replacement stock 66-75 frame bracket, sold by a CB forum member (@catfan):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3261255346...d=link&campid=5335857059&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

Todd Z.

 

[joebronco73]

Oh, and I disagree with the statement that a riser always drives better than a drop.
That might be true when everything is set up properly, but I’ve driven some pretty crappy handling riser-equipped trucks, and some pretty great handling drop-equipped trucks.
So as always… “it depends“ comes into play.
Depending on lots of things!

By the way, was that you in another thread talking about dropping the suspension down to stock, or near stock height?
If so, I think you should probably ignore the riser.
Sounds like that wasn’t you though, since you’re even contemplating a riser and long arms.

This is a good point. When OP mentioned going to a Duff setup, I assumed ( ) their suspension was well past stock and probably more substantial for wheeling.

 

[Chris99]

Happy to help with that. Parts are available so it takes a lot of the calculations out of the equation. I didn’t want to poke at the ugly on your frame bracket, I do try to not offend about appearance of work, I’ve done some ugly work and don’t like it being poked at if it works lol.

Here’s the Riser Bracket for the axle. Tom’s has this as well.

Here’s the Frame Bracket there is a difference in this from 76/77 and earlier models, I can’t remember off hand what that difference is other than the height of the hole.

The other item that need to happen is TRO (Tie Rod Over knuckle). Here’s a link to a good discussion with photos, someone may have a better one. Lot of debate about the correct way to do this, I prefer the hour glass method, rather than the taper bushings, IMO the bushings are just something to cause headache down the road. Most of our vendors offer the reamer for this, but any 7* reamer will work.

The goal is that the track bar and drag link are parallel. With a downward angle that is close to stock.

Hope this helps.

Ok thanks this helps Im going to do some more research on what work for me. What is the are the benefits of TRO or do you have to go TRO if using a riser? What is the hour glass method?

 

[Chris99]

Not a problem now. When I was thinking that was you that was going to lower your truck, I thought that could be the case.
A riser is not desirable, nor might it even fit, with less than 3 1/2 inches of lift.

It’s all a system. Everything gets set up first!
When you’re making lots of modifications like this, mock up is the key. And mock up is all about making everything work together.

No matter what the lift, long arms usually have more caster built into them. But with this much work, you should probably do a cut and turn.
It’s the only way to guarantee proper caster AND proper pinion angle at the same time.
You could certainly keep adding correction, such as the radius arms, offset C-bushings, offset ball joint eccentrics, and whatever else.
But at some point, your front pinion angle becomes untenable and the u-joint binds up.
Basically negating four-wheel-drive.

I only like it if it’s needed.
Or if using a track bar riser…

The main thing I want is for my bronco to drive well not have death wobble or bump steer. I don't know if all this part are necessary or not.
Ok so long arms and offset C-bushings wouldn't be enough to fix caster or would you set up the front and see what the pinion angle is ? Or is the cut and turn the only way really get everything prefect?

 

[Johnnyb]

Ok thanks this helps Im going to do some more research on what work for me. What is the are the benefits of TRO or do you have to go TRO if using a riser? What is the hour glass method?

TRO was always a goal for me as I have pretzeled several tie rods on rocks as the lowest hanging and weakest link. TRO leaves the much stronger axle tube as the lowest part of the suspension.
I use the James Duff Heim TRO set up and I am generally pleased except their track bar riser is too tall for my 2.5 in lift and I am going to end up cutting it and redrilling it, as well as extending the bump stop on the passenger side:
Thread 'James Duff track bar riser taller than bump stop' https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/james-duff-track-bar-riser-taller-than-bump-stop.323251/
Even though my track bar and drag link are not totally parallel, I have no noticable bump steer and no death wobble.
Don't forget to get an adjustable track bar so you can properly Center the axle under the vehicle.

-JB