Help! Electrical Problem

[csangster]

So my bronco has been sitting for 4-5 years.

Before it got stored in my garage, it ran just fine.

Previous to sitting her in the garage I had re-wired the entire bronco with a Ron Francis kit (I believe).

Regardless, it was performing fine.

I am moving in a month so I decided to get her breathing again so I started going through everything to try to get her started.

I wanted to start by just getting her to turn over.

Battery is good, solenoid clicks, but nothing happens at the starter. The starter was old, so I replaced it.

Still the same thing.

Curious thing were happening though, when I turned the key, there would be arcing through the stock throttle linkage. I'm talking about the stock throttle linkage that is hard mounted to the firewall and connects to the top of the intake.

I believe this is telling me that my ground between the chassis and the body is jacked up AND that my power lead from the solenoid to the starter is also possibly suspect.

Can anyone tell me what steps I should take to troubleshoot?

Please advise,
Chris

 

[Viperwolf1]

The ground between the engine block and the battery is screwed up.

 

[csangster]

Help me understand that.

Wouldn't a ground problem between the battery and the engine block keep power from getting to all of my accessories?

All of my lights and accessories are working fine.

I'm no Yoda, I'm just asking.

Chris

 

[Viperwolf1]

Help me understand that.

Wouldn't a ground problem between the battery and the engine block keep power from getting to all of my accessories?

All of my lights and accessories are working fine.

I'm no Yoda, I'm just asking.

Chris

A ground connection can have a very good connection or a bad connection. A very good connection will let lots of current flow through it. A bad connection will only let a smaller amount of current through it. A starter needs lots of current. Headlights do not.

The throttle linkage is arcing because it's easier for the current to go through it than the ground cable.

 

[csangster]

I figured it was a ground of some sort.........I'll take a good look at the ground for the battery. I put the battery in the cab because of some messed up battery tray issues 7 years ago.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[csangster]

A ground connection can have a very good connection or a bad connection. A very good connection will let lots of current flow through it. A bad connection will only let a smaller amount of current through it. A starter needs lots of current. Headlights do not.

The throttle linkage is arcing because it's easier for the current to go through it than the ground cable.

Wait.

My battery is mounted in a waterproof case like what is used for aquatic setups. When you say ground, you mean the negative terminal to the chassis, correct?

 

[Viperwolf1]

Wait.

My battery is mounted in a waterproof case like what is used for aquatic setups. When you say ground, you mean the negative terminal to the chassis, correct?

No. Negative cable to engine block. That's where most current is needed.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Wait.

My battery is mounted in a waterproof case like what is used for aquatic setups. When you say ground, you mean the negative terminal to the chassis, correct?

The engine (with starter) is sitting on rubber mounts, insulating it from the frame.
Negative battery cable, big cable to the engine or transmission. Small cable to the body (lights, radio, little stuff)
Or, battery cable to engine/transmission and another cable off that mounting point to the body.

Grounding the frame is pointless, engine sits on rubber mounts as does the body.

 

[csangster]

That makes complete sense. Thank you for the clarification.

I'll make sure all of my grounds are squared away.

 

[DirtDonk]

If you didn't replace all of your main battery cables at the time you did the re-wire anyway, now's the time I'd say.

Since it's in the cab with you, I assume all the battery cables were new though. Correct?
Like the others said, but especially with that much distance between the battery and starter, there is no such thing as overkill. Use the biggest gauge you can get, and run the main ground directly to the engine block. Closer to the starter the better, but anywhere on the block is better than nothing.

For the body ground(s), you can get away with much smaller wire, and attach it to a convenient spot near the battery or wherever you want. As said, the rest of the accessories don't use near as much all together as the starter does all by itself.

Have fun. And, unlike most Summer well-wishes, may your day not end with fireworks!

Paul

 

[csangster]

Battery

I DID put new battery cables in, but apparently I did it wrong all those years ago and it is just now catching up to me.

My negative battery cable goes through my cab floor and mounts directly to the frame.

So I'll get some heavy gauge cable and run it to the motor then take the old negative cable, modify it and throw it between the frame and the engine.

Fair?

The cable I used last time is nearly as big as my index finger.

 

[BroncoDawg]

Not to steal thread, but similar issue. Going to move my batteries to the rear and seems I can save some money on cable by going from battery to frame and then near starter, go frame to starter? Then anytime I need a good ground, like for a winch, can just go to frame? Thoughts?

Mice could have gotten busy on your wiring too, so check things out for that!

 

[Viperwolf1]

Not to steal thread, but similar issue. Going to move my batteries to the rear and seems I can save some money on cable by going from battery to frame and then near starter, go frame to starter? Then anytime I need a good ground, like for a winch, can just go to frame? Thoughts?

Mice could have gotten busy on your wiring too, so check things out for that!

Sure, that would work. Just make sure you have good clean connections.

 

[csangster]

Not to steal thread, but similar issue. Going to move my batteries to the rear and seems I can save some money on cable by going from battery to frame and then near starter, go frame to starter? Then anytime I need a good ground, like for a winch, can just go to frame? Thoughts?

Mice could have gotten busy on your wiring too, so check things out for that!

that was the first thing I did. No mice. No problem there.

 

[csangster]

If you didn't replace all of your main battery cables at the time you did the re-wire anyway, now's the time I'd say.

Since it's in the cab with you, I assume all the battery cables were new though. Correct?
Like the others said, but especially with that much distance between the battery and starter, there is no such thing as overkill. Use the biggest gauge you can get, and run the main ground directly to the engine block. Closer to the starter the better, but anywhere on the block is better than nothing.

For the body ground(s), you can get away with much smaller wire, and attach it to a convenient spot near the battery or wherever you want. As said, the rest of the accessories don't use near as much all together as the starter does all by itself.

Have fun. And, unlike most Summer well-wishes, may your day not end with fireworks!

Paul

I completely understand what has been said to date, but before I go through the effort of putting together a new cable I wanted to try to get what I have to work (since it worked fine 4 years ago).

So here is what I have right now.

Optima battery in the cab.

LARGE gage negative cable goes to the frame below the battery.

LARGE gage positive cable runs up to the iginition solenoid.

Starter cable runs from the solenoid to the starter.

I couldn't find the ground coming off the engine so I added a cable from the passenger side exhaust manifold.

First I ran it to the body.......when I did that, and turned the ignition, the solenoid doesn't just click......it 'ratchets'.......clicks real fast.

Then I thought, ground needs to go to the frame. So I moved the cable to the frame and tried it again. This time the solenoid only clicked and then the ground cable got so hot that it started to smoke slightly, just like when the throttle linkage started to spark and smoke.

So I have two questions:

1) What does it mean when the solenoid 'ratchets' like that? Is the solenoid bad?

2) Sounds like I just need to make the grounds the way you guys said to:

a) Negative battery cable to motor
b) Positive battery cable to solenoid
c) Starter cable between solenoid and starter
d) Ground cable between motor and body.

Anything else?

 

[csangster]

If you didn't replace all of your main battery cables at the time you did the re-wire anyway, now's the time I'd say.

Since it's in the cab with you, I assume all the battery cables were new though. Correct?
Like the others said, but especially with that much distance between the battery and starter, there is no such thing as overkill. Use the biggest gauge you can get, and run the main ground directly to the engine block. Closer to the starter the better, but anywhere on the block is better than nothing.

For the body ground(s), you can get away with much smaller wire, and attach it to a convenient spot near the battery or wherever you want. As said, the rest of the accessories don't use near as much all together as the starter does all by itself.

Have fun. And, unlike most Summer well-wishes, may your day not end with fireworks!

Paul

Can I attach the negative cable at the starter mount bolt?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Can I attach the negative cable at the starter mount bolt?

Yes

Exhaust isn't the greatest place for a ground. Usually rusty and rust is a poor conductor.

Ratcheting solenoid is when the solenoid kicks in and the voltage drop is so great that there isn't enough voltage left to keep the solenoid pulled in (voltage between the solenoid ground and the "S" terminal). Once that voltage drops enough the solenoids opens up, the voltage drop goes away and the voltage is available to pull the solenloid in again. Vicious cycle. Bad wiring will do it. So will dirty connections. And a near dead battery can aslo do it.

Smoking ground wire is a problem. There is too much resistance (undersized wire or bad connections) that creates heat and thus smoke.

 

[csangster]

Yes

Exhaust isn't the greatest place for a ground. Usually rusty and rust is a poor conductor.

Ratcheting solenoid is when the solenoid kicks in and the voltage drop is so great that there isn't enough voltage left to keep the solenoid pulled in (voltage between the solenoid ground and the "S" terminal). Once that voltage drops enough the solenoids opens up, the voltage drop goes away and the voltage is available to pull the solenloid in again. Vicious cycle. Bad wiring will do it. So will dirty connections. And a near dead battery can aslo do it.

Smoking ground wire is a problem. There is too much resistance (undersized wire or bad connections) that creates heat and thus smoke.

Sounds to me like I need to do what you said in the beginning.

Get the negative battery cable to the block (starter mount)

Keep the ground strap from the block to the body.

 

[csangster]

Yes

Exhaust isn't the greatest place for a ground. Usually rusty and rust is a poor conductor.

Ratcheting solenoid is when the solenoid kicks in and the voltage drop is so great that there isn't enough voltage left to keep the solenoid pulled in (voltage between the solenoid ground and the "S" terminal). Once that voltage drops enough the solenoids opens up, the voltage drop goes away and the voltage is available to pull the solenloid in again. Vicious cycle. Bad wiring will do it. So will dirty connections. And a near dead battery can aslo do it.

Smoking ground wire is a problem. There is too much resistance (undersized wire or bad connections) that creates heat and thus smoke.

Another question....

What is going on when you turn the key and the solenoid 'rings' or makes a single 'tone'?

 

[csangster]

Yes

Exhaust isn't the greatest place for a ground. Usually rusty and rust is a poor conductor.

Ratcheting solenoid is when the solenoid kicks in and the voltage drop is so great that there isn't enough voltage left to keep the solenoid pulled in (voltage between the solenoid ground and the "S" terminal). Once that voltage drops enough the solenoids opens up, the voltage drop goes away and the voltage is available to pull the solenloid in again. Vicious cycle. Bad wiring will do it. So will dirty connections. And a near dead battery can aslo do it.

Smoking ground wire is a problem. There is too much resistance (undersized wire or bad connections) that creates heat and thus smoke.

Where is the 'ideal' place for me to attach the ground strap and/or negative battery terminal?