How far to drive in spindle bearings?

[tacobronco]

How far do you guys drive the spindle bearings (National B-2110) into the spindles?

The reason I ask is that I found out the hard way that if you only drive them in far enough for the little inner seal to sit on top of them, then when you install the axleshaft spacer ring and outer seal, there is not enough room for the outer seal to flex enough to actually fit around the seal surface on the axleshaft when you try to install the axleshaft. On the other hand, if you drive the bearing all the way in to the step inside the spindle bore, then the seal fits fine, but the bearing rollers ride awfully close to the edge of the machined area on the axleshaft where they are intended to ride. Obviously there is a happy medium, but I can't find it spec'd anywhere. Randy Lyman in his "Differentials" book just says to drive the bearing in far enough for the inner seal to sit on top of the bearing - which is what I thought I did, and it did not work. I believe driving the bearing in a little as possible is better for the strength/stability of the axleshaft.

(BTW, I have the style of axleshaft/spindle that uses a traditional 2-lip seal pressed into the inboard side of the spindle, not the funky "J-seal" that uses that weird accordion-looking seal slid over the axleshaft.)

 

[langester]

I have always driven mine all the way in and had no trouble. Do you have problems with both of your spindles or just one? What brand of bearing are you using, maybe there is a slight difference in manufacturers? Just thinking out loud here. Curious to see what you come up with.

 

[tacobronco]

I have always driven mine all the way in and had no trouble. Do you have problems with both of your spindles or just one? What brand of bearing are you using, maybe there is a slight difference in manufacturers? Just thinking out loud here. Curious to see what you come up with.

Bearings and seals are all National. Axleshafts are Yukon. Problem is the same on both sides.

I was thinking of just driving the bearing all the way in, but that just leaves the inner seal floating around in a relatively large gap. Not sure if that hurts anything, but doesn't seem like it does much good, either.

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[DirtDonk]

The step is there to act as the stop. I've always mounted bearings that way, and all the factory installed spindles I've looked at had theirs all the way in as well.
I still have my original spindles around here somewhere, but not likely going to find them anytime soon enough to be a good check for you.
There were different spindles where the change occurred somewhere between '71 and '73 I believe, so maybe there was also a change to the design of the outer axle shaft as well.
I didn't think so, but it's possible and we've just never noted it.

Remember that the axle shaft assembly does move in and out just slightly. Where would that put your machined surface when all the way in, or all the way out?

What year's the Bronco? And what do you mean by axle spacer ring? You talking about the thrust washer (probably plastic) with the inner beveled edge? Are you installing it so that the bevel rides up against the radius of the axle shaft, so that the washer sits flat against the wide area?
And do your spindles have the deep outer recess (not the small one for the spindle bearing) where a regular seal would be pressed in?

Good luck.

Paul

 

[Rustytruck]

In the early days old Dana 44 in the Bronco the inner needle bearings were pressed in just a little in to the spindle hole to clear the brass thrust washer. Later years they pressed it in about 1/4" deeper so the could add a rubber v seal between the axle and inner spindle. This had to be driven in enough so the little v seal clears the brass or plastic thrust washer between the axle and the spindle they use these days. They still use the larger v lip thrust seal between the spindle and the axle.

 

[tacobronco]

Thanks, guys, for the help!

DirtDonk - The Bronco is a 67, but its running a Dana 44 from a 71, I believe. By spacer ring I mean the beveled thrust washer, and I am indeed installing it with the bevel inboard, toward the axleshaft radius. And I do have the larger outer bore that accepts a standard double-lip grease seal, not the accordion thingy shown in top left of Rustytruck's second photo.

Rustytruck - Your first photo helps. It looks like the bearing is driven in just far enough that the inner seal sits just below the surface. I'm going to try it this weekend just like that. The problem I had before was that the inner seal was sitting just above the surface, which made the thrust washer sit higher, which prevented the outer seal from flexing in enough to permit it to wrap around the large diameter of the axleshaft. Regarding your second photo, I have everything but the top two items. Instead of those items, I have a regular double-lip grease seal that presses into the inboard side of the spindle.

This setup has worked perfectly for the last 5 years using all the same part numbers from National, and there was no sign of contamination when I took it apart. I just didn't pay attention to how far the bearings were installed when I blew it all apart!

Rustytruck - In your first photo, I see the inner seal is installed with the groove inward (toward bearing). That seems logical to me, but Randy Lyman's book says/shows doing it the other way, groove outward (away from bearing). Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[DirtDonk]

The earliest pictures I saw of that seal all had the open side facing the bearing and solid side visible. Just like in Rusty's pic.
This was confirmed (at least to me) with all the subsequent removals of possibly original seals as installed from the factory.

I've known people that preferred the open end outward and am not aware of any issues this ever caused. But I still use the way I learned back when.
Not sure if I've ever ready Lyman's book. I'll have to check it out. Is there any reason given, or just that's what it shows as the proper way?

Paul

 

[tacobronco]

The earliest pictures I saw of that seal all had the open side facing the bearing and solid side visible. Just like in Rusty's pic.
This was confirmed (at least to me) with all the subsequent removals of possibly original seals as installed from the factory.

I've known people that preferred the open end outward and am not aware of any issues this ever caused. But I still use the way I learned back when.
Not sure if I've ever ready Lyman's book. I'll have to check it out. Is there any reason given, or just that's what it shows as the proper way?

Paul

I agree that the way you've seen/done it seems correct. I've always thought that with seals, the groove should go towards the thing you're trying to keep in, which in this case is the grease in the bearing. I'm pretty sure that's how I did it when I assembled it the first time 5 years ago.

No reason given in the Lyman book (that I saw anyway), just says to install it with the groove facing away from the bearing.

Thanks!

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[gr8scott]

I stopped using spindle bearings altogether. Love these things:
[YOUTUBE]gHjwVyUKknQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[tacobronco]

Just an update - I know nobody was waiting on pins an needles to hear how this went, but just in case someone searches this topic in the future, I thought I'd post the resolution...

I drove the spindle bearings in to about 0.180" below the surface of the spindle. The inner seal is about 0.155" thick, so this kept it low enough that the beveled thrust washer sat fully on the spindle surface, slightly lower than my previous attempt. (This depth also looks about the same as the photo in the Lyman book.) I then installed the outer seal flush with the adjacent spindle surface per normal practice. I did the first installation of the spindle assembly onto the stub axle on the bench using plenty of grease. It seemed to be harder to install on the stub axle the first time, then it goes together normally after that. I think the first installation squeezes out all the excess grease and also flips the inner lip of the outer seal flips inward slightly (the more natural position for it), and then everything fits smoothly after that.

Anyway, thanks all for the help!

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for the update.
Are you able to slide the axle shaft in and out about 1/4 to 3/8" or so when it's all assembled? So that the thrust washer is not sandwiched hard between the axle and spindle all the time, but is just there for the times when the axle is pushed up against the back of the spindle.

And are you using the original style press-in double-lip seal? Sounds almost like you're using the seal like in the pic above, so figured I'd ask just to be sure.

Thanks.

Paul

 

[tacobronco]

Thanks for the update.
Are you able to slide the axle shaft in and out about 1/4 to 3/8" or so when it's all assembled? So that the thrust washer is not sandwiched hard between the axle and spindle all the time, but is just there for the times when the axle is pushed up against the back of the spindle.

And are you using the original style press-in double-lip seal? Sounds almost like you're using the seal like in the pic above, so figured I'd ask just to be sure.

Thanks.

Paul

The stub shaft does have a little axial freeplay, but it's not nearly 1/4" -3/8". It's more like 0.030" I don't think you'd want it to be much more than that - the seal and corresponding seal surface on the stub shaft are less than 1/4" thick. (I am using the press-in, one-piece, double-lip seal.)

 

[Tiko433]

I stopped using spindle bearings altogether. Love these things:
[YOUTUBE]gHjwVyUKknQ[/YOUTUBE]

I have not seen one thanks for sharing