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Is emissions equipment that bad?

lonesouth

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Messages
5,045
Everyone is always taking off the emission stuff. EGRs, cats, etc...Am I the only one who wants the engine to run exactly the same way it did in the mustang it came out of? I understand that I may lose some hp, but how much will the EGR and cat affect the torque? Seems I'll use torque more than HP. Moreso since I'm running a 351w...My goal is to pull in the garage and know that the garage and I will not smell like raw fuel. I'm not a greenie by any means, but I was a boy scout and I like to do my part to keep things clean.
 
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needabronco

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Messages
6,411
Loc.
Prescott/Farmington
In all reality it won't affect a single thing if it's working properly. In a bronco that spends the majority of the time below 3000 rpms there's nothing emission equipment does to harm power output... EGR only operates at 'cruise' and according to popular theory it may actually improve gas mileage. Cats anymore don't really have any effect on performance unless your rig is HEAVILY modified and makes 1/4 mile passes.... IAB (idle air bypass) is essential for an efi engine to idle with the butterfly on the throttle body closed, not really an emissions item.
 

bluebronco69

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,856
Loc.
Damascas, OR
i dont know about the effects of the other components, but frankly i think it is stupid to remove catalytic converters from vehicles. i mean flat out dumb. with todays technology, a high flow magnaflow catalytic converter can be bought new on ebay for less then 80$ so why not run one? i have one on my jeep cherokee, its great, really love it. there it no point to deleting them or hollowing them out as people used to do, in fact that is illegal.
so i say if you have room, then run at least the cat, if you can make the other stuff work, and understand it, then go for it
 

toddz69

Sponsor/Vendor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Messages
10,571
Everyone is always taking off the emission stuff. EGRs, cats, IABs, etc...Am I the only one who wants the engine to run exactly the same way it did in the mustang it came out of? I understand that I may lose some hp, but how much will the EGR and cat affect the torque? Seems I'll use torque more than HP. Moreso since I'm running a 351w...My goal is to pull in the garage and know that the garage and I will not smell like raw fuel. I'm not a greenie by any means, but I was a boy scout and I like to do my part to keep things clean.

Nothing wrong at all with trying to run as much of it as you can - I think it's a worthy goal. I had EGR on my truck until recently. My one caution is running catalytic converters on a vehicle that wasn't originally designed for them. I think we'd agree there isn't much, if anything, different on the underside of EBs that ran cats from the factory and those that didn't, but it's something to think about.

Todd Z.
 

bluebronco69

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,856
Loc.
Damascas, OR
Nothing wrong at all with trying to run as much of it as you can - I think it's a worthy goal. I had EGR on my truck until recently. My one caution is running catalytic converters on a vehicle that wasn't originally designed for them. I think we'd agree there isn't much, if anything, different on the underside of EBs that ran cats from the factory and those that didn't, but it's something to think about.

Todd Z.

especially if your fuel tune isnt right and you are running rich, you will plug up that cat faster then you can say plugged cat.
 
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lonesouth

lonesouth

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Dec 18, 2003
Messages
5,045
IAB (idle air bypass) is essential for an efi engine to idle with the butterfly on the throttle body closed, not really an emissions item.

corrected...the acronyms just got running and I had a keyboard of consciousness moment...
 

NY-Bronco

Resident Dipstick
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
2,336
Loc.
Weehawken, NJ
I went to get my Bronco Inspected. In Jersey with all the layoffs they currently only do emissions testing. Being that our rigs are old and used to be carbed monsters, I only had to pass the emissions by 1972 standards. When the boys at the station saw the EFI they did not even bother to test it.

If you are wanting to do a small part in keeping the environment a bit better, Id say you have done your job 10 times over. You recycled an entire vehicle. Thats more than most can ever claim. By adding EFI you have improved the technology on your Bronco by about 20 years.

Tune it right and you're in good shape without having to feel guilty about anything!!

Just my .02
 

zeeman1

Bronco Guru
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
1,268
Loc.
Seattle
I don't know that it's really 'bad' but it is bulky. In a narrow bronco engine bay fitting all that crap under my hood was going to take a lot of work, and make working in there next to impossible. That's the primary reason I pulled mine out.
 

badmuttstang

redneck grease monkey
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
2,807
As long as every thing is in good working order and your tune is right then there is no problem with running it, but as stated if your tune is off you will be clogging up things quick plus if you have a good tune you really don't need the smog stuff on the older ones new cars yes but that because of the computers unless you fool them they never run right with parts missing
 

fuzzy2133

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
252
Loc.
San Jose, CA
I think it is a great idea to be as environment friendly as possible with our hobby because it helps keep the more aggressive environmentalists from harming our hobby.
 

BoltBuster

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
2,051
Alot of the older and non performance brands choke the life out of the HP, some of the new stuff now is fantastic
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Simply pulling some devices off can be detremental to performance. An example of that is the EGR system. I that case the hot exhaust gas is recirculated to slow the combustion. Just pulling it off without changing the cam and it will run like poo because you will also need to retard the timing.
 

fastcarkenny

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
340
Loc.
Avondale, AZ
I'm with zeeman. I am looking to eliminate the stuff that was proven over time to be usless, like the air injection system, and keep anything useful, like I have learned that the EGR can be. I want to keep what I NEED, not just throw in what came on it because its original to the engine. I'm getting more performance out of the fuel injection, so I'm not looking for more by loosing emissions controls. just trying to clean it up a bit and leave less to fail.
 

jw0747

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Nov 22, 2006
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2,434
Loc.
San Antonio, TX
wonder why all race cars, dragsters, NASCARs, Indys don't have emission systems. maybe has something to do with engine performance.
 

Viperwolf1

Contributor
electron whisperer
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
24,346
wonder why all race cars, dragsters, NASCARs, Indys don't have emission systems. maybe has something to do with engine performance.

Same reason your Bronco doesn't have wings-it's not needed.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,706
As stated, modern emissions has almost no effect on power or economy. I like them, I don't like sniffing the results of a dirty tailpipe anymore.

Now in the dark days of the mid to late 70's, it was a different story. You could take an engine, pull the emissions stuff, but in a normal cam and carb and it would run a LOT better. The original catalitic converters were pellet type, basicly forcing the exhaust to flow through a can of gravel sized media. Those sucked for flow. Hence the "pull it off and it will run better". But every modern (mid 80's and up) cat is a honeycomb substrate. You can see straight through it (although only in a bunch of straight lines). The flow is nearly as good as a stright pipe.

EGR can do some neat tricks. Done right (and that generally means computer controlled) it adds dead exhaust gasses to the combustion chamber. This causes incrased cylinder pressures. More cylinder pressure gets you more bang per drop of gas. I have seen published ½ MPG increase by adding EGR from reputable sources (non-profit, non-marketing publications). The dead gases also absorb combustion heat that the elevated pressures create, so the chamber actually runs a touch cooler (less NOx emissions). So higher pressures, burn the fuel better, get more work for the burn, and reduce NOx emissions. It is closed at idle and full power so those do not get affected. Great thing to run.

Evaporative (charcoal canister). No effect on how it runs at all. In theory a touch better MPG as it is now burning the gasoline vapors instead of just letting them go. Again a system that only works at cruise. Best part is the garage isn't as stinky of gasoline vapors.

Really there isn't a downside to modern emissions stuff.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,706
wonder why all race cars, dragsters, NASCARs, Indys don't have emission systems. maybe has something to do with engine performance.

All the emissions stuff (except cats in the exhaust) is turned off at full throttle anyway.

Not a single engine from the vehicles listed above would make a good engine in a Bronco anyway. A few would be interesting and maybe fun for a little bit in the right place (sand dunes, mud pit) but they would all suck to drive on the street and nearly impossible to drive on any trails.
 

HGM

Full Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
973
Loc.
Senoia, Ga.
The biggest reason for not running it is a simple lack of understanding.. There is a reason that modern vehicles run better for much longer with less repairs than those of 40yrs ago.. Mine will have '96 level emissions, just like the donor..
 
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