Latest oil recommendations for 5.0 roller and for 4f70w

[bronco italiano]

And as I stated, how is the engine built?

Wisdom of the Bowsher.
I went to check on how thin an oil I can run on my FE.
Tom Lucas, from FE specialties, who is going to break in my motor, asked, "What are your rod and main bearing clearances.
I called my machinist and he said "two n the rods and 2.5 on the mains....". Tom Lucas said I can run 20/50 in the warm weather and 10/30 in the winter snow weather.
I will use either Swepco/Lucas/or Driven engine oil for the FE. My Bronco motor, 240Z, and air-cooled VW's get Swepco only.

 

[ba123]

Moroso 20511

 

[nvrstuk]

Only offering from me would be to measure from the bottom of the block on an EB pan to the full mark on it's dipstick.

This measurement should be the full height on your new dipstick.
Mark the new dipstick at whatever the distance/measurement is on your new one from the bottom of the block & you are done

Pan could be 8" deeper & it wouldn't matter. Just the surface ht so it's not getting whipped the crank journals rotating

 

[Broncobowsher]

Oil level has to be high enough even when there is cold oil pumped to the top and it isn't running down very fast, there will still be enough settled out in the bottom of the pan where the pickup is sucking good oil and not airated oil foam.
but also low enough that the crank isn't whipping the oil up into a froth either. Splash lubrication works for your lawnmower, not in a V8. A little slosh into the crank is fine, running down the highway with the cranks making a splash party in the crankcase isn't. Big one is beating the oil like that takes energy, you lose power while making the oil excessively hot. Bad enough you can put so much oil on the bottom of the cylinders that the rings can't control it and you burn oil. Also risk wedging oil behind a seal and pressing it out, but that is pretty severe.

Get in that window, you are at an acceptable oil level.

There were some discussions with some CAT engineers about 30 years ago I remember hearing about regarding oil level in a bulldozer that was always running grades near the max limit for the machine and the oiling issues they were dealing with.

 

[ba123]

Hard to be sure but this pan front sump seems kinda dumb to me. Does the oil only get out of there when I accelerate pr go uphill? Dipstick at an angle on there so I'm estimating a range of current fill with the marks. It could be at the top mark but even there looks kinda low right? Should be no prob adding a quart or more if I want but one prob enough.

Thoughts?

 

[nvrstuk]

That's to hold oil in there for wheelies!


No drain plug in the front sump? lol

 

[nvrstuk]

Did you grab a tape & measure from the top of the old pan to the dipstick mark and transfer that measurement to your new pan/dipstick? No guessing this way as it would be OE.

 

[ba123]

Haha, yes, wheelies! I looked at it more and the right side has a kind of slope so it prob wouldn't take much acceleration to make it come out.

There is a drain plug there. I had to chop the drain plug in order for it to fit though cause it's right against the crossmember. It is TIGHT! I wrote in my oil pan thread about it and might not even remove it when it's time cause it's so difficult to get in with it chopped. I could jack up the front or something.

Old Pan? Haven't seen that thing since 1999, when I partied like it was. I puled this Mustang 5.0 out of a wrecker in 1998, drove it in the Bronco for a year, then started ground up resto in March of '99. I built the engine then and I might have the dipstick in a box somewhere but not the pan. I did take it apart this past year and make sure I did things right and redo some seals (prob unnecessarily, but no idea where the old mark would be.

Anyone know how much below the pan base is ideal? I would a couple inches. I have a nice DCC Racing mains brace in there as well...I know I don't need it but I was a kid makin' money and there are worse habits I never got into so threw money at Engine parts like there was no tomorrow, thus the BXR intake.

 

[nvrstuk]

This is nice new Moroso deep sump pan and at some point, my engine tipped while in storage and broke the Mustang alternator mount and bent the pan.

Wrote about when I fixed it here….https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/moroso-deep-sump-oops.318504/

While it would suck to have to replace this expensive pan, I think I'd rather do that than replace the rear main seal, so we’ll see which wish comes true. Ideally my last tightening did it but we’ll see.

If I do replace it, I'd prob go with the Bronco specific Canton deep sump.

I think the best hibperformance pan I've used is the (hate to say it, FP pan). Not cheeeep!

 

[ba123]

I like the Canton one that is for the Bronco.
https://www.cantonracingproducts.co...7-bronco-rear-sump-oil-pan-black-powder-coat/

Not cheap either but neither was this one.

What's the part # on the FP pan?

 

[bronco italiano]

This one from FP?
https://lmr.com/item/M6675DRS302/mu...x1sfHE1AAGdz0radDCXHjyWfbeBXIqt8aAjU-EALw_wcB

 

[ba123]

That is nice. The thing I notice about my Moroso is that the drivers front corner of the rear sump will hit the front end if compressed enough. I had to put some extremely tall bump stops that I hope will slow it down a little.

The Canton one is made for the Bronco and has a cutout there that I'm assuming is right since it is made for the Bronco. There are a couple different pics of this pan, not sure which one is correct. It might not have a front sump on it and I'd bet not since the rear sump is 10" whereas my Moroso is 9".

That FP on has a small cutout but might not be enough.

 

[ba123]

I decided to just out 7 quarts in my 7 quart pan and be done with it.

 

[bronco italiano]

If the pan is set up for 7, then 7 in plus the filter need.
Since your not drag racing, possibly being 1 qt low isn't gonna be a problem unless your oil pressure drops

 

[ba123]

No drag racing here (although everyone around me think I sound like it) and oil pressure doesn't drop at 6 so I'm comfortable for now with 7.

 

[fordguy]

I know my machinist well and he knows his equipment well. Tolerances and specs are what they are supposed to be.

 

[jamesroney]

Hard to be sure but this pan front sump seems kinda dumb to me. Does the oil only get out of there when I accelerate pr go uphill? Dipstick at an angle on there so I'm estimating a range of current fill with the marks. It could be at the top mark but even there looks kinda low right? Should be no prob adding a quart or more if I want but one prob enough.

Thoughts?
View attachment 921178

The Moroso 20511 is the Fox Mustang dual sump pan. The front sump on the Fox pan is moronic. To make it bigger is just more moronic. The oil in the front just sits there and does absolutely nothing. Ever.

The Fox engine should have the dipstick in the block. But it costs money to build tooling to accommodate the dipstick hole in the block. So somebody built a dipstick into the pan. I'm pretty sure that pan comes with a flat flange. All of the Fox pans are flat flange. The flat flange pan needs the rail stiffeners to help seal the gasket. The old Bronco pan has reinforcing ribs to stiffen the pan flange. I don't see your rail stiffeners? I've got some extras that you can have.

Moroso says 7 in the pan including whatever the filter holds. But their instructions are cryptic. They say start with 7 quarts -the filter capacity. Then add the filter capacity to get you to 7. It's also moronic. What if your filter capacity was 7 quarts? Start with zero? No way. Sometimes I hate racing stuff...

 

[ba123]

The Moroso 20511 is the Fox Mustang dual sump pan. The front sump on the Fox pan is moronic. To make it bigger is just more moronic. The oil in the front just sits there and does absolutely nothing. Ever.

The Fox engine should have the dipstick in the block. But it costs money to build tooling to accommodate the dipstick hole in the block. So somebody built a dipstick into the pan. I'm pretty sure that pan comes with a flat flange. All of the Fox pans are flat flange. The flat flange pan needs the rail stiffeners to help seal the gasket. The old Bronco pan has reinforcing ribs to stiffen the pan flange. I don't see your rail stiffeners? I've got some extras that you can have.

Sometimes I hate racing stuff...

Yes, I have a hole for the dipstick in the block, but I tapped and plugged it thinking dipstick in the block would do nothing for this deep pan, but yeah, maybe I shouldda left it. Would've saved another headache or two.

You think I need the rail stiffeners for this beefy pan? If so, yes please, I'll take them. I do have a tiny leak at the rear, but looks like it's over the cap. Bellhousing is clean as a whistle, so not cursed on that one yet. I keep tightening the pan little by little to see if I can get it to stop. I've got the reusable Felpro gasket with the metal rings around the bolts so I shouldn't be able to over tighten. One really annoying thing was getting this pan over my oil pan studs. Not sure if it was the pan, or this engine not wanting me to use studs, but I would bet it's the pan. Again, leaning towards wasting some more money and getting that Canton one. It'll be easy to get the oil out of that front sump when I take that pan off and spill it all over myself.