Lost Oil Pressure - ITS FIXED! Update on page 2

[77RHINO]

Hey guys, I was driving tonight and noticed the engine started sounding louder than normal. Looked at the oil gauge, and oil pressure had dropped to 0. I've been driving it as often as possible, very easy, to try and get these new rings seated and everything broken in right. Been running about 60-70 PSI every time I've driven it, gets a little closer to 60 once its warmed up. Checked the oil right before I left, just above full. Good on coolant, fuel, etc. Drove it earlier today for probably 2 hours, varying speed, RPMs, etc, but never exceeded maybe 3300 and that was an easy acceleration, not stomping on it. So I see the gauge and limp it home as easily as possible, currently waiting for it to cool off. It was still full of oil when I got home, never knocked or smoked, just ticking pretty loud. Oil pump is fairly new from the original rebuild, prob 2-2.5 years old. I cleaned the screen prior to installation this time and primed it with a corded drill 2-3 times prior to initial fire-up. I've maybe driven 50-75 miles total since installation. What are the possible causes??

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Rustytruck]

Things I would look for lost an oil gally plug. Siezed pump, broken pump drive. Broken /cracked oil pump pick-up. Bad pressure sending unit. Stripped distributer drive socket. I'd pull the distributer and try to drive the pump with a drill motor running in reverse.

 

[77RHINO]

Thanks Rusty, I'll go start with the dizzy and report from there!

 

[77RHINO]

Well the bottom of the distributor drive sheared off, a little bit below the gear. I'm trying to see if the missing piece is still down in there, I can tell there is some material pushed up into the dizzy shaft itself. Does anyone have a picture looking up into the dizzy shaft so I can see what they looked like normally? I'm hoping this is one solid piece laying down there and I can extract it without pulling the pan.

From where I heard it to my house means I limped it about 4 miles with zero oil pressure, maybe drove 25-35 mph the whole way back. What kind of damage do ya'll think this has done?

 

[gnpenning]

I would drop the pan. That way you can pull a rod and main cap or 2 and check the bearings and crank.
You can also check the oil pump for issues.

A tow is way cheaper than driving with no oil pressure.

Hope you are lucky and everything looks great.

 

[tirewater]

Sounds like your oil pump seized and broke your distributor shaft. It's a pity it didn't break it above the camshaft gear rather than below it.

At the very least, main & rod bearings, camshaft + lifters (if flat tappet), rings.

First I'd use a scope to check the cylinder walls, as this lets you know early on if you should simply source a different engine.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Oil pump seized because it had debris in it from previous engine failure. That caused the shaft to fail. Never, ever reuse an oil pump after an engine failure.

 

[77RHINO]

Thanks for the input guys, I'm hoping for the very least of damage, as I have thrown entirely too much money into this engine. The reason I rebuilt it this time around was because I didn't install the oil tension rings the first time around, causing an insane amount of oil consumption (first-time full engine build). There weren't any failures, everything was still in good shape internally, so I had it honed and the crank polished up a little bit, and threw in all new bearings and rings. I'm hoping this just broke the engine in faster than normal, once I get a scope I will be able to see more.

 

[tatersalad]

That is what happened to me about 7 years ago going home from work. I had the radio up and didn't catch it in time and it started knocking. Ended up accelerating my EFI 351W swap though. I did have to sell a 75 Bronco I was planning on building for some cash to get it all moving though.

 

[blubuckaroo]

You're right that the cylinders would survive this better than most other components, but I wouldn't second guess anything at this point. You should pull the motor for a complete disassembly and inspection.
Look the cam lobes and lifter faces over really well. Any scuffing at all only will get worse.
Also, send photos. There's that sick part of all of us that likes to see engine carnage.

 

[admin]

Did you replace the timing gear with the recent engine work you did? The original timing gears had nylon teeth, which disintegrate over time. When this happens small chunks of this plastic can get sucked up in the oil pump and seize it. I had this happen several years back.

Either way you need to drop the pan to see what other chunks might be in there.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Loss of oil pressure and some valve clatter won't hurt the engine. $100 in parts to get it fixed.

Driving 4 miles, Not a nice thing to do. It takes surprisingly little oil to keep things lubed. 2-stroke engines are proof of that. But they are designed to run minimal oil mist. 4-stroke needs oil. You are very lucky that you made it home without seizing the engine.

Pull the engine again, you should be good at it now. Pan has to come off for the oil pump. inspect ALL the bearings. You have gotten lucky.

 

[Rustytruck]

If you dont have the klunk, klunk,klunk of a spun bearing. Pull the engine and pull the pan and then flip it. You want to see the contents in the pan before you flip it. Then replace the pump, the pump drive and check /replace the rod and main bearings and run it until it till it dies a permanant death. Engines are tougher than most people give them credit for. Make sure you clean the through holes in the crank journels. Make sure you change the oil filter.

 

[77RHINO]

I was able to extract the rest of the shaft tonight, it came out in one piece and the shear marks mesh up perfectly against each other (Used a piece of heater hose taped into a shop vac to get it out). I noticed a crack up the shaft up to where the separation happened as well. I put a socket on the pump shaft and was able to turn it and get oil pumping up through the hole with just a hand ratchet, and could feel tension was building. If it had seized, is it likely that it could still turn and pump??

I'll drain the oil into some jugs to see what may have gotten torn up in there. Once I can see what the oil looks like I'll have a better idea of how deep I will have to get into it. Unfortunately I used A LOT of sealant to prevent leaks, so that pan won't be coming off too easily.

Jon - It has a new double-roller timing chain in it as well, when I built this engine 2 years ago I replaced everything except the block, crank/rods and pan basically. Also, I'll be sending you some $$ to renew my contributor status and show some pics again!

Thanks guys and keep the input coming!

 

[garberz]

You aren't running a high volume oil pump are you? It's not good practice to run those on a stock motor. The resistance is too much when the proper machining isn't done to accommodate them. Just searching as to why your drive shaft failed.

Mark

 

[broncnaz]

As was said at least pull the pan and replace the oil pump and check the rod and main bearings. The pump could have locked just long enough to break the dizzy shaft. I wouldn't trust it. And the short drive home may have damaged the bearings. If the bearings look good then I would say you got lucky and may only be spending money on a dizzy, oil pump, driveshaft and gasket set..
While your engine didn't fail last time If I remember correctly you did have some metal in the oil. That stuff went thur the oil pump before hitting the filter so the oil pump probably did get some wear and may have even had some debris still in it. While it suck and anything can happen it kinda shows that pinching a few dollars can be a bad idea. If mileage is up and I have to pull a oil pan to fix a rear main leak I almost always check bearings replace if worn and replace the oil pump figure its insurance.

 

[Rustytruck]

You really want to check that oil pump pick up. Everything going to the pump goes through there. I would want to cut open the oil filter and see what got chewed up and filtered out. Before you get it running again I would put a high power magnet on the out side of the pan under where the oil pump pickup resides. Then take it off just before you drain the oil and drain the oil hot. Put it back after the oil change.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-154-7904/overview/make/ford

 

[Viperwolf1]

If it had seized, is it likely that it could still turn and pump??

I have seen it happen. Sheared 3 distributor gear pins before the pump was inspected and found to be the cause.

 

[77RHINO]

I've finally pulled the pan, and so far the only rod bearing I checked looked brand new. I'll continue through them all once I have more time. I did see some very fine metal shavings in the bottom of the pan, but nothing that looks too bad yet. I expected to see a bit because of the new rings, and I also saw some paint flakes from the inside of the pan. So far, not too much carnage. I will keep digging and keep you all updated.

 

[77RHINO]

Pulled off a couple more rod caps and a main cap, so far every bearing I've checked looks brand new and still had oil all throughout the passages. I'm wondering if I need to still remove them all or call it good? I can also see the cam with a flashlight and it had oil dripping off, didn't appear to be messed up from what I can tell. I've already ordered a new oil pump (standard volume), pickup, driveshaft and pan gasket, and I will be picking up a new dizzy as well. Also bought a primer tool, I'd hate to get the bottom end back together only to drop a socket into it!