New / Old broncos being made from new parts.

[toddz69]

No doubt that some smoke and mirrors are involved in these activities. It's very close to the problems that hit the cloned Cobra's guys 10-15 years ago.

My take on it is that at least in California it's very important to anyone willing to drop $100K plus into a project to not be tied to the 1975 and later California emission requirements. And you have a big incentive to not have your Early Bronco registered as a new build with an assigned DMV VIN#.

The new "replacement" Art Morrison frame becomes the same VIN# as your current (rusted/bent/damaged) Early Bronco frame, and with your current Title and Registration to support your full ownership. The old rusted, bent, damaged frame gets destroyed (I would save the small section area with the original VIN# for your records). This has happened for decades when a vehicle manufacturer has the need to warranty replace a frame that has a VIN# embossed into it. About the only difference is the manufacturer, or their distributor requires that they receive the frame section showing the embossed VIN# before they will stamp and ship out the replacement frame. I have experienced both sides of this issue. I have been a state licensed distributor vehicle sales representative, and a service manager in a dealership selling and servicing six brands.

I think the BIG question has nothing to do about stolen vehicles and switching VIN#'s like commonly done in a chop shop operation. It has to do with State Motor Vehicle Departments collecting revenue dollars. In California, our registration fee/license is based on the purchase price of the car/truck/trailer/motorcycle. 10% tax on a $250K ICON Bronco is a lot of money. And it's a recurring expense every year at renewal time. Why in the world would you ever not want it to be just your old existing Bronco Title and Registration?

This is an unresolved sleeping issue. You know it will become headlines someday, when a big name builder gets hit. It happened to Boyd Cottington.

Thanks for your insight - that helps a lot. The '75-newer emissions requirements is probably why ICON usually (always?) uses older rigs for their builds, besides the fact that the older trucks would've been cheaper too when they started with the builds 10-11 years ago.

So you're saying the new frames will have the original U1XXXX VINs stamped in them? I didn't realize that could be done.

The registration $$ info is interesting too - didn't even think of that!

This was all brought to the forefront for me again a few years ago when I was at B-J here in AZ and chatting with a guy who had bought a $300K build from one of the custom builders at the show. He said it was all ready to go but they still had to "figure out how to title it" or words to that effect. I was floored that someone would commission a build of that magnitude/$$ amount and not have the titling/licensing figured out before you plunked down your $$. He was obviously in a different tax bracket than I so maybe it wasn't a big concern for him.

Todd Z.

 

[ngsd]

This is an article that is relavent. If the frame and body are new they are treated the same as a kit car such as a Cobra replica. They need and MSO or certificate from the builder that can be used in the first time registration process. The problem is that everyone wants a title that says it si a real Bronco.

Here's How to Title a Homemade Vehicle or Kit Car | Dirt Legal

Making a kit car street legal means ensuring that all the necessary safety equipment is added to your car. While each state requires different things, some items are required regardless of where you are.

www.dirtlegal.com

 

[kat]

I was just fixing to bring up the whole 'kit car' title. My dream car is an AC Cobra which I can't afford so I have been looking very hard at Factory Five. And my understanding is that there is a 'kit car' title loophole. Meaning the car was hand built. It reminds me back in the day getting a 'junkyard title'

 

[1buckeyefan1]

I checked out the velocity booth at my local show this weekend and they pretty much confirmed what we suspected. They use about 50/50 new vs old frames and have a team of guys scouting the country finding donor titles. That's likely why were seeing 10k frames now..

As for glove box vs frame verification.. it's what we all know. Some states are more friendly than others. He said don't try to get a custom frame titled in CA.

Sent from my SM-N981U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Rustytruck]

the problem with kit car titles in California is that they limit to a total of 5oo car titles per year and it can take years to be selected in the lottery to be allowed to register your project. you submit the paper work to be put on the list. then you wait to be called. they have never cleared the back log in any year. easier to get titled out of state and then bring it in with title and do a transfer. I new someone who did this after waiting 3 years to be picked to no avail.

 

[thegreatjustino]

I checked out the velocity booth at my local show this weekend and they pretty much confirmed what we suspected. They use about 50/50 new vs old frames and have a team of guys scouting the country finding donor titles. That's likely why were seeing 10k frames now..

Second page of Bronco Driver issue #88 has a two page advertisement from Velocity wanting to buy your frame.

 

[HoldMyPocket]

I've always contemplated what would happen buying virtually any vehicle with a 1975 or older title, a new Bronco frame and body, and then having that '75 > title stamped onto the new frame. For example: buy this 1964 Falcon Rancher (https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/d/hemet-ford-falcon-ranchero/7505675099.html) and use it's vin the new frame. Or, graft the stamped frame-rail into the new frame.

 

[MD]

I checked out the velocity booth at my local show this weekend and they pretty much confirmed what we suspected. They use about 50/50 new vs old frames and have a team of guys scouting the country finding donor titles. That's likely why were seeing 10k frames now..

As for glove box vs frame verification.. it's what we all know. Some states are more friendly than others. He said don't try to get a custom frame titled in CA.

Sent from my SM-N981U1 using Tapatalk

When I registered mine in CA, the DMV didn't like the body VIN, so they send me to the CHP. The CHP checked all the frame stamped VINs and riveted their own VIN to the door jam.

 

[MD]

the problem with kit car titles in California is that they limit to a total of 5oo car titles per year and it can take years to be selected in the lottery to be allowed to register your project. you submit the paper work to be put on the list. then you wait to be called. they have never cleared the back log in any year. easier to get titled out of state and then bring it in with title and do a transfer. I new someone who did this after waiting 3 years to be picked to no avail.

You can register a specially constructed vehicle in CA without limit if you reuse the smog components from the engine donor. Factory Five makes provisions to reuse the smog components from a donor for several of its models (maybe all) as many other states other than California require smog for kit cars. The one exception in CA is that alternatively you can choose to smog based on the year of the body style instead of the engine, but only 500 exceptions are given each year.
When I registered in November 2002, I think I was number 313. In 2003 I think they ran out before the end of the year and it quickly reached the point where they were gone in a few minutes on the first day of each year.
There are plenty of 60 and early 70s 302 blocks available to legal register a kit car with less smog issues.

 

[Broncoblood]

killing the dinosaur, I think its a sin

 

[MD]

The textured powder coating on the frame rail is heavy texture, and probably near impossible to read the VIN even on an original frame without destroying the coating.
This is the passenger frame rail to the right of the engine.

Velocity Frame Rail textured

 

[marin77]

how do you match new frame to original title?
VIN is in question here..
Do you stamp new frame with old VIN?
isn't it illegal to tamper or alter VIN on original frame.
legally, that is the question.

It does not match if it’s a new frame (unless it has been stamped which was not the case in my convo). And if you get a detail oriented person, you have to get a state-assigned replacement VIN.

 

[bax]

I have an old 66 u14 title and vin tag sitting here in the drawer. The truck is long gone. I guess I can go buy a frame and a body and every part I will need to build from nothing. Stamp the frame in the correct places. Put the vin tag on the inner kick and go register it.

 

[marin77]

When I registered mine in CA, the DMV didn't like the body VIN, so they send me to the CHP. The CHP checked all the frame stamped VINs and riveted their own VIN to the door jam.

So does it mean you have a mismatch between your title (original title) and your Bronco (new CHP assigned VIN)? Thanks

 

[ngsd]

I have an old 66 u14 title and vin tag sitting here in the drawer. The truck is long gone. I guess I can go buy a frame and a body and every part I will need to build from nothing. Stamp the frame in the correct places. Put the vin tag on the inner kick and go register it.

And make all kinds of new friends in prison!

 

[bax]

I would be doing the same thing as many of the builders in question here are doing. Should I expect to see them in jail with me. My title is already in my name, I would just be buying a tag and registering it.

 

[tirewater]

I would be doing the same thing as many of the builders in question here are doing. Should I expect to see them in jail with me. My title is already in my name, I would just be buying a tag and registering it.

The difference may be that the rebuilder would have the original frame or proof that it was destroyed. I'm pretty sure I've seen stacks of original Bronco frames in Jonathan Ward's videos. I'm sure it depends on the builder, but having a clear trail, either paper or other physical evidence is a necessity. You never know when you'll be called out to prove the validity of the vehicles you're rebuilding and selling.

 

[ngsd]

I would be doing the same thing as many of the builders in question here are doing. Should I expect to see them in jail with me. My title is already in my name, I would just be buying a tag and registering it.

Roll the dice, only the attorneys win!

 

[Rustytruck]

well they must have an approved way they are working with the DMV I do know anyone willing to risk felony charges and personally risking civil fraud charges for the bucks they make. its not like their are making million on illegal trafficking. what ever they are doing Im sure they have an approved process with the DMV. They have been doing it too long first with Land cruisers and now Broncos and then what ever is next in line.

 

[ngsd]

Very simple to get a bonded title since the frame is the clear evidence of the MSO/VIN. Take a title and warranty tag and fight against a frame with a VIN in court that had a previous bonded title and a new title is re-issued. Who do you think would win? Black and white. That is a gamble in the worst way. Stamping new numbers is just plain illegal in any state so that is a non starter. Do all of these builders play by the same ethics? I would love to think so but unfortunately not.