New / Old broncos being made from new parts.

[Slowleak]

Theoretically, a person could buy a frame from TDK, have them stamp it with a known VIN, or possibly even a made up VIN. Then throw a new body it on it, order a warranty plate and door post sticker from Marti and build it out. Then take it to a state, such as Georgia that does not require a title, write up a bill of sale, get it registered, and sell it. Meanwhile a Bronco could be registered in another state to an unknowing owner under the same VIN. It’s no different than VIN cloning which is a big problem with stolen cars. That’s why frame stamping, or reusing a VIN, is illegal unless you go thru the DMV process.

 

[bgaller]

I think the federal law is fairly clear on this that it's not illegal if it's not done in an attempt to defraud or further theft. It seems like it comes down to each state and what they allow:

If the replacement of a certification label that contains a VIN or the altering of a stamped VIN is not for the purpose of furthering theft or defrauding anyone, such action may not constitute a criminal violation of this statute. However, since Title 18 of the U.S.C. is administered by the U.S. Department of Justice, it may be advantageous for a consumer to present such questions to that agency before a VIN is removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered.

Consumers should also be aware that 18 U.S.C. § 2321 makes it a crime to buy, receive, possess, or obtain control of, with intent to sell or otherwise dispose of, a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, knowing that an identification number for such motor vehicle or part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered. However, this statute contains exceptions. One of these covers situations in which Other Federal Statutes May Make It a Crime to Change a VIN the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is not a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 511. Furthermore, one exception to 18 U.S.C. § 511 covers situations in which a person “restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle . . . in accordance with applicable State law.” In light of this, consumers should check with their State’s Attorney General before removing, obliterating, tampering with, or altering a VIN or replacing a certification label that contains a VIN.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/vin_errors.pdf

Also, many states don't care about the frame VIN, they care about the PUBLIC VIN, which on these trucks is on the drivers B pillar. It's a little weird because you can obviously buy those from Marti, so I think their approach is flawed.

 

[DirtDonk]

For Broncos it’s only on the B pillar after 69, or maybe it’s 70. Prior to that it was only on the warranty plate or the frame.

 

[sprdv1]

Theoretically, a person could buy a frame from TDK, have them stamp it with a known VIN, or possibly even a made up VIN. Then throw a new body it on it, order a warranty plate and door post sticker from Marti and build it out. Then take it to a state, such as Georgia that does not require a title, write up a bill of sale, get it registered, and sell it. Meanwhile a Bronco could be registered in another state to an unknowing owner under the same VIN. It’s no different than VIN cloning which is a big problem with stolen cars. That’s why frame stamping, or reusing a VIN, is illegal unless you go thru the DMV process.

yeah I can see that

 

[DHaun]

The textured powder coating on the frame rail is heavy texture, and probably near impossible to read the VIN even on an original frame without destroying the coating.
This is the passenger frame rail to the right of the engine.

Velocity Frame Rail textured

I am very familiar with Velocity, they do not powder coat over the VIN number on original frames. Most of their builds are on original frames as well.

 

[LUBr LuvR]

Not mine, nor looking to buy it - but hadn’t seen a listing describing a VIN being stamped on a new frame…..currently on BAT.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1...e=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2023-09-20

 

[Derelict]

No doubt that some smoke and mirrors are involved in these activities. It's very close to the problems that hit the cloned Cobra's guys 10-15 years ago.

My take on it is that at least in California it's very important to anyone willing to drop $100K plus into a project to not be tied to the 1975 and later California emission requirements. And you have a big incentive to not have your Early Bronco registered as a new build with an assigned DMV VIN#.

The new "replacement" Art Morrison frame becomes the same VIN# as your current (rusted/bent/damaged) Early Bronco frame, and with your current Title and Registration to support your full ownership. The old rusted, bent, damaged frame gets destroyed (I would save the small section area with the original VIN# for your records). This has happened for decades when a vehicle manufacturer has the need to warranty replace a frame that has a VIN# embossed into it. About the only difference is the manufacturer, or their distributor requires that they receive the frame section showing the embossed VIN# before they will stamp and ship out the replacement frame. I have experienced both sides of this issue. I have been a state licensed distributor vehicle sales representative, and a service manager in a dealership selling and servicing six brands.

I think the BIG question has nothing to do about stolen vehicles and switching VIN#'s like commonly done in a chop shop operation. It has to do with State Motor Vehicle Departments collecting revenue dollars. In California, our registration fee/license is based on the purchase price of the car/truck/trailer/motorcycle. 10% tax on a $250K ICON Bronco is a lot of money. And it's a recurring expense every year at renewal time. Why in the world would you ever not want it to be just your old existing Bronco Title and Registration?

This is an unresolved sleeping issue. You know it will become headlines someday, when a big name builder gets hit. It happened to Boyd Cottington.

The laws do vary from state to state. In Oregon it is possible to get an "Assembled Title". You must provide receipts for all major components such as frame, running gear body parts etc.. You can start with used parts or build entirely from scratch. IF you start with an existing frame with a vin but no title you have to go through a title search in Wa, Id, and Ca. , Unless you have documentation that you purchased the frame from someone who replaced it and re-used the VIN which requires removing that 1-1/2" x 8" piece of steel from the old frame. You end up with a fully saleable, titled vehicle but it does say Assembled and that may deter some future buyer. There is also a maximum number you can do but it is well more than a small shop could churn out. I have friends in Washington and California that have looked into doing something similar there but not so easy.