Project Long Horse

[rcmbronc]

Both of mine are Anti Rocks from Currie. Largest ones I could get from them in the front.

 

[Yeller]

I had Accutune build and tube these for my Bronco before I stretched it. Used scales and all that. When I had coils and leafs, I used these coilovers without coils as shocks and they were great.


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Valving is probably close then, but with your set up you may need more rebound to control the dive. The biggest difference is height and the spring rates being way less. I forget your running a manual too so it dives and lifts with every gear change, so power is on and off, not smoother like with an auto. Ride height plays a factor, center of gravity always wants to laydown on the ground. There is absolutely nothing wrong, in reality a good thing, with adding an antirock to the front, it will help. I often forget with coilovers that we are dealing with a bronco, which is nose heavy, not a buggy that is closer to 50/50 or in go fast world 40/60. Other thing to consider is how much weight did it gain? it will affect valving and spring rates.

 

[Hinmaton]

Valving is probably close then, but with your set up you may need more rebound to control the dive. The biggest difference is height and the spring rates being way less. I forget your running a manual too so it dives and lifts with every gear change, so power is on and off, not smoother like with an auto. Ride height plays a factor, center of gravity always wants to laydown on the ground. There is absolutely nothing wrong, in reality a good thing, with adding an antirock to the front, it will help. I often forget with coilovers that we are dealing with a bronco, which is nose heavy, not a buggy that is closer to 50/50 or in go fast world 40/60. Other thing to consider is how much weight did it gain? it will affect valving and spring rates.

Weight is a good question. The rear should be the only change, but I need to put it back on the scales and see.
I tried to out all my junk back in the back so it would lower the rear a bit, but it really didn’t do much. The front sits an inch or two lower than the rear.
I have 200lb tender springs on the front and 250lb on the back. Should I swap them? Add more pre-load to the front maybe?
Also, should I get the same (Duff) anti rock for the front or find something stiffer?

Edit- actually it’s possible I have the springs reversed…


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[Yeller]

The springs all work together, or should. The adjuster ring on the body of the shock that is above the slider should be adjusted to come into contact with the slider at 1" or 2" before the bump stop to increase the spring rate to help assist with bottoming out, with air bumps that is really not necessary. That is why there normally is a heavier spring on the bottom and a lighter one on top. True tender coils are like 25# made of flat spring material and are designed to hold tension on the springs at full droop, with properly rated and length of spring rarely are they needed so you don't see them often. Adding preload will just make your ride height higher, I have never understood why they call it preload adjuster, yes it does adjust for preload at full extension to hold the spring pack together, beyond that it adjusts ride height.

Duffs front antirock is perfect and what I would use

 

[cag33]

Anti rock just in the front or front and rear?


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Front, I was thinking the rear leafs would hold everything in line. 4link for the rear is on the list for next winter.

 

[Hinmaton]

The springs all work together, or should. The adjuster ring on the body of the shock that is above the slider should be adjusted to come into contact with the slider at 1" or 2" before the bump stop to increase the spring rate to help assist with bottoming out, with air bumps that is really not necessary. That is why there normally is a heavier spring on the bottom and a lighter one on top. True tender coils are like 25# made of flat spring material and are designed to hold tension on the springs at full droop, with properly rated and length of spring rarely are they needed so you don't see them often. Adding preload will just make your ride height higher, I have never understood why they call it preload adjuster, yes it does adjust for preload at full extension to hold the spring pack together, beyond that it adjusts ride height.

Duffs front antirock is perfect and what I would use

Alright. I checked the springs and I do have them right. 250 above 350 on the front and 200 above 250 on the rear.


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[Hinmaton]

Well, maiden voyage went…
After towing the Bronco to the event, setting up camp, unhooking and heading out for some dinner, my GMC 2500HD through the drive belt on the way back to camp. I was able to strong arm it back safely, and fish the belt out which was a mess but intact.

The closest auto parts place opens at 8 am and closed at 12pm.
I called and they didn’t have either of the possible belts, but their other branch 15miles away did, so I borrowed a truck and went straight away. The belt they had seemed too long, but they had one that was a similar length to my gnarled twisted example. Drove back, it was too small.
Drove back to parts store get too long belt and it fit! Started the truck and immediately smoked the belt. Bad pulley caused the problem.

Found one locally before the they closed and got it all back together in time to meet up with the group at lunch. Took it up and down the road while I waited for the group just to heat and cool the gears some.
It was pretty damn squirrelly- I also noticed that I had terrible traction. On loose gravel or dirt on any kind of incline I could not go anywhere without spinning the tires. I had to put it in 4Hi just to get going. It performed horribly in the rocks, just spinning. I had to get momentum to do anything. Got stuck in a muddy rut on a small hill… apparently my passenger rear wheel isn’t locked?
Grizzly locker and drive flanges. Not sure what is going on there.
So I’m thinking all my problems (except 3wd) are due to the excessively high ride height. I think I am 4”-5” above my planned height which changes my intended Caster as well as the anti-squat anti-dive numbers?

Thoughts on this?
How do I get my ride height down without going to shorter coilovers?


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[Yeller]

Bummer, rough outing. Only one tire pulling may explain some of the squirrely handling and no traction issues. Were you running the same locker before, new, used ect? Dumb question and I’m only asking because I’ve done it….Sure the axle shaft is the right length? Any chance the axle is for an ARB and slid inwards disengaging the puck in the flange? Only ask these things because I’ve been there scratching my head.

How much shaft do you have showing on the shocks? I know you said early on but what length travel are they?

 

[Hinmaton]

It’s a New Grizzly 35 spline and custom shafts, splines both sides, drive slugs at the hubs. All brand new.
I swear it was working during fabrication and when I was bleeding brakes and what not.
It did bind up on the pavement today well trying to turn around. Enough resistance to stall the motor. Big pop, but I assumed it was doing it’s thing.
I’ll know as soon as I open it up.
But driving characteristics were pretty much the same before and after that event.

I have 9” or more shaft showing in the rear.


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[Yeller]

Is it possible the front brakes are dragging? Dunno, I’m 1200 miles away throwing out ideas to see if something sticks.

What are the shock measurements? Might can ponder on your other question about ride height.

 

[Hinmaton]

Is it possible the front brakes are dragging? Dunno, I’m 1200 miles away throwing out ideas to see if something sticks.

What are the shock measurements? Might can ponder on your other question about ride height.

I believe the brakes are dragging a bit, particularly in the rear where I adjusted the e-brake actuator tight like it’s supposed to be. They need to bed in a bit. I heard lots of chirping squeals from the rear while driving in the trail, like being followed by birds.

The Coil overs are 14” Fox 2.0 RR. As it sits I have 9” up travel and 5” down travel.
Fronts are 250/350
Rears are 200/250
So I’m 4”-5” upside down on my ride height.


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[Hinmaton]

Well, that answers that.
I assumed that the Grizzly had a center pin or something, so I could get away without a snap ring groove. You can on the front, so you can on the rear too? Or that’s what I thought


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[Hinmaton]

Well first off: oil has made it passed my inner seals with no problem. Secondly: it’s silver!

Looks like it’s just a local issue? I hope.


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[Yeller]

That axle will be fine. Needs a spacer on the end of it to hold it out. You can glue it on or tack weld it. if it comes loose it won’t hurt anything. There is it cross pin in a Grizzly.

Wow those spring rates seem really high. I’m assuming they are 12” long on top and 16” on the bottom?

 

[Yeller]

With a spring rate change should be able to pull 4” out easy

 

[Hinmaton]

That axle will be fine. Needs a spacer on the end of it to hold it out. You can glue it on or tack weld it. if it comes loose it won’t hurt anything. There is it cross pin in a Grizzly.

Wow those spring rates seem really high. I’m assuming they are 12” long on top and 16” on the bottom?

Does it matter what material the spacer is? Is 1-3/4” too long of a spacer?

They are 14” on top and 16” on the bottom.
Any idea what I should be shooting for?
The fronts have 1” of pre-load and have 1” less shaft showing than the rear.


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[Yeller]

Remove the preload. They only need enough to hold the springs together at full extension. All the preload is doing is raising your ride height. The 14” and 16”springs are actually correct.

As for spring change without weights I really have no idea. But yours are pretty high. Need to dig up my spring rate calculators, if I can find them. When you got your weights were any calculations done to know what the actual sprung weight was? Sprung weight is the true weight needed for spring calculations. The sprung and unsprung weight is important for shock valving too.

As for the spacer, it can be anything, wood, delron, steel, whatever won’t be attacked by gear oil. 5/8 sounds right but I would pull both axles and measure the overall length from outside to outside of the pucks and make the spacer long enough to make the axles that long. You only need an 1/8 of clearance under the caps.

 

[Hinmaton]

Remove the preload. They only need enough to hold the springs together at full extension. All the preload is doing is raising your ride height. The 14” and 16”springs are actually correct.

As for spring change without weights I really have no idea. But yours are pretty high. Need to dig up my spring rate calculators, if I can find them. When you got your weights were any calculations done to know what the actual sprung weight was? Sprung weight is the true weight needed for spring calculations. The sprung and unsprung weight is important for shock valving too.

As for the spacer, it can be anything, wood, delron, steel, whatever won’t be attacked by gear oil. 5/8 sounds right but I would pull both axles and measure the overall length from outside to outside of the pucks and make the spacer long enough to make the axles that long. You only need an 1/8 of clearance under the caps.

Steve,
I have the pre-load out of the rear, still 9” of shaft showing at ride height.
There is 1” of pre-load on the fronts and 8” of shaft showing at ride height. I’m guessing that if I remove the 1” of pre-load out in the front I will have 7” of shaft showing at ride height.
As far as weights this is what I sent to Accutune to set this up:

“The weight of the Bronco is as follows:
LF: 1713 RF: 1697
LR: 1390 RR: 1244

The front shocks are mounted vertically from the rear side of the axle-
The rear shocks lean forward 20 degrees from the front side of the axle-
Wheelbase 95 inches”

I had a Radius arms, LP Dana44, the medium duty 74-75 Ford 9” and 11 leaf springs at the time.


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[Yeller]

May be a bit but will run some numbers. In an iso audit today

 

[Yeller]

Wow, 6044# which is not correct, can’t be. Not debating scales, methods or calibrations, just simple math, but with known springs and known compression we can get really close on sprung weight. This is going to get a bit geeky so I hope it all makes sense. To weigh that much the front springs would compress 9”, it is compressing 7”, 350/250 springs make 144# spring rate, 7x144=1008#. To get 9” of compression the spring rate needs to be 112#. The rear spring rate is 111# so put the rear springs on the front and you should have the ride height near what you want.

For the rear the true sprung weight 1110# or 555# per corner. The angle on the rear makes this not quite perfect but still very close. The rate should be 65#. The springs should be 175/100 to get the correct ride height.

According to these calculations your sprung weight is estimated at 3126, significantly less than the previously calculated 5200ish pounds of sprung weight.

Hope all of this helps.