Project Long Horse

[Yeller]

With soft suspension drag link and track bars scan get weird even with correct lengths and being parallel. With more travel the oscillation of the body to axle begins to make weird things happen. The axle actually can move side to side enough to begin to steer it’s self. Shock tuning and a front sway bar do help.

That is why you see some use a triangulated 4 link and bell cranks to get the steering to play nice at speed. I’ve looked at doing that, but man is it a ton of engineering. It takes 2 bell cranks to make the steering work and if done right is a work of genius magic. If done wrong it is really bad.

My bronco does the same “where’s it going” if I come off a rise enough to agressivly get the font to droop. If I fight it, it will wear you out if you let it go and don’t fight, it feels change your underwear weird but it goes straight.

 

[Hinmaton]

With soft suspension drag link and track bars scan get weird even with correct lengths and being parallel. With more travel the oscillation of the body to axle begins to make weird things happen. The axle actually can move side to side enough to begin to steer it’s self. Shock tuning and a front sway bar do help.

That is why you see some use a triangulated 4 link and bell cranks to get the steering to play nice at speed. I’ve looked at doing that, but man is it a ton of engineering. It takes 2 bell cranks to make the steering work and if done right is a work of genius magic. If done wrong it is really bad.

My bronco does the same “where’s it going” if I come off a rise enough to agressivly get the font to droop. If I fight it, it will wear you out if you let it go and don’t fight, it feels change your underwear weird but it goes straight.

“It feels change your underwear weird…”
Oh my lord, that is brilliant and so on point.
I knew fighting it was not really helping but trying to go with the flow was too terrifying with oncoming traffic on narrow unmarked roads.
As long as that’s normal, I’m happy.
I tried to come up with a clever way to install the Duff Anti-Rock in the front, but I just couldn’t come up with a way to package it. I can live with crazy motor boat. Hey, it beats most any day commuting on I95.


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[Yeller]

Commuting on I95 I’ll be doing that in a couple of weeks, just much further south.

Yeah it does feel terrible to trust it. As long as it is tracking good you did the design parts right.

 

[Yeller]

Bronco lean lol. Mine leans the same way…. Completely my fault….. front spring bucket is 1/2” higher on the drivers side….. I blame ford’s design, the tub isn’t symmetrical side to side and I did the tube work the same side to side. Didn’t catch it until it was painted, assembled and done. That 1/2” sure would have come in handy for the master cylinder lol, I could make the top of it more than 1/8” from the hood, there is now a dimple there when I did the build it had manual brakes so it was less of an issue.

Back on topic…. That’s pretty low. My tire to body line measurement is 1” lower front and rear with similar up travel. For 37’s mine is dumb low

Back to this. Called a friend with a bone stock 68 wagon with newish stock replacement springs. Hers sits right at 40-1/2” at the body line over the tail light and is running 30” tires. So confirmed on a second bronco I have “no lift”. With my lowered floor pans the seat bottom cushions are the same height, we measured that once before.

 

[Hinmaton]

Back to this. Called a friend with a bone stock 68 wagon with newish stock replacement springs. Hers sits right at 40-1/2” at the body line over the tail light and is running 30” tires. So confirmed on a second bronco I have “no lift”. With my lowered floor pans the seat bottom cushions are the same height, we measured that once before.

That’s impressive. I mean, damn.


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[Yeller]

Thanks. I enjoy building what is considered “impossible”. There’s a saying in my shop, “when everything is close to everything and nothing kisses that shouldn’t is perfection.” Lol

 

[DirtDonk]

Common issue when you need a 1-5/16” bore master to properly operate 1 ton discs, it takes up a lot of space…

This always struck me as at least interesting, if not wrong. But i guess it depends on what truck you're sourcing this from, because some F350's with the big dual-piston calipers use as small as a 1 1/16" bore.
I actually had one book that showed some as having a 1" bore, just like the original Bronco masters, but not sure where that was at the moment. But looking up my '79 it comes up with 1 1/6" instead of the larger one you're using.
Looking it up again I see they run over quite a range of sizes depending on the truck, year, and how it was outfitted.
Which one do you guys use the 1 5/16" from? And have you tried the smaller ones and found the pedal feel too soft?

Paul

 

[Yeller]

This always struck me as at least interesting, if not wrong. But i guess it depends on what truck you're sourcing this from, because some F350's with the big dual-piston calipers use as small as a 1 1/16" bore.
I actually had one book that showed some as having a 1" bore, just like the original Bronco masters, but not sure where that was at the moment. But looking up my '79 it comes up with 1 1/6" instead of the larger one you're using.
Looking it up again I see they run over quite a range of sizes depending on the truck, year, and how it was outfitted.
Which one do you guys use the 1 5/16" from? And have you tried the smaller ones and found the pedal feel too soft?

Paul

I started with a 1” stock master with no booster, stopped great with low pedal effort, but you could push the pedal to the floor by hand and the brakes didn’t work until almost to the floor, always made you wonder if it was going to stop even though you could lock up all 4 on the highway, just as the pedal smashed into the floor. Up next was the 1-5/16 bore from a 85 Chevy K30 with a Duff booster and bracket. Felt better but needed more power, went to a booster from an 80 Corvette, pretty happy. If I ever change my power steering pump, not a simple task, I’ll go to hyroboost. I’m running 3.5” 1 ton GM calipers on the front and 3” calipers on the rear, both single piston. If I remember correctly the total surface area of the dual piston calipers is a little less. Drum brakes helps too, they require less volume and less pressure.

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks

 

[Hinmaton]

Okay, back to business.
I replaced the hardwired battery in my scales and got the unsprung and total weights:

These do not include my weight. 216lbs
But it does include a full 23g of fuel.
LF: 713lbs RF: 1008lbs
LR: 968lbs RR: 967lbs
Also, not sure why my right front is so heavy, the battery is behind the passenger seat. Maybe if I was in the drivers seat the front would be balanced more?
F=2463 / R=2505.
Pretty damn close to 50/50!

Hh


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[Yeller]

Awesome! The heavy corner is a spring adjustment away from being pretty close. The opposite rear corner is heavy too by 150#. Have to play with the adjusters to even it out the weights and maintain your desired ride height. It will help with stability and some of the funky handling you’ve described. You won’t get them perfect, you not building a race car and ballasting it to be perfect.

 

[Hinmaton]

Awesome! The heavy corner is a spring adjustment away from being pretty close. The opposite rear corner is heavy too by 150#. Have to play with the adjusters to even it out the weights and maintain your desired ride height. It will help with stability and some of the funky handling you’ve described. You won’t get them perfect, you not building a race car and ballasting it to be perfect.

Are you saying it’s possible to adjust the side to side weight distribution through preload, but bearing in mind ride height could be adversely effected?
Should, I put my weight in it too?

Hh


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[Yeller]

Yes you could. I’d load up anything that is normal and see where it’s at. The closer it’s balanced the better it will drive. You can lower the weight at the opposing high points and adjust everything to get the desired ride height. You won’t get it perfect without a lean that you don’t want, but close is outstanding.

 

[79INA69]

I measured:
7 3/4” front axle to frame w/ @4” of up travel.
8” rear axle to frame w/ @5” of up travel.

I also noticed this as I opened the garage:

I pulled up on that side of the bumper and then it settled here:

So there’s that-
How much variance in ride height do I have, you ask.

So- yeah. That’s normal right?

Hh

B
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So basically 8" frame to axle and 10.5" tire to body line, that's low for 39's. 5" of front and 4" rear uptravel is impressive! I have my body line at 43" on the bump stops. 37s with 1" body lift. I need to cut my truss down or make a recess in the floor to move any higher than that. And that's with basically 2" from frame to axle clearance. My current track bar and oil pan to diff clearance is the limiting factory up front. And I agree, climbing in and out with it lower is a bonus. Have you seen the Skyjacker Bronco that runs Ultimate adventure? Its not really low, and it seems to wheel really well.

 

[sprdv1]

Thanks. I enjoy building what is considered “impossible”. There’s a saying in my shop, “when everything is close to everything and nothing kisses that shouldn’t is perfection.” Lol

and make it look easy

 

[sprdv1]

Yes you could. I’d load up anything that is normal and see where it’s at. The closer it’s balanced the better it will drive. You can lower the weight at the opposing high points and adjust everything to get the desired ride height. You won’t get it perfect without a lean that you don’t want, but close is outstanding.

Think I should give him your # Whip that S out in now time You the man sir

 

[Hinmaton]

So basically 8" frame to axle and 10.5" tire to body line, that's low for 39's. 5" of front and 4" rear uptravel is impressive! I have my body line at 43" on the bump stops. 37s with 1" body lift. I need to cut my truss down or make a recess in the floor to move any higher than that. And that's with basically 2" from frame to axle clearance. My current track bar and oil pan to diff clearance is the limiting factory up front. And I agree, climbing in and out with it lower is a bonus. Have you seen the Skyjacker Bronco that runs Ultimate adventure? Its not really low, and it seems to wheel really well.

Did I mention that I have a 3” body lift and I moved the engine up 1.5” and the front axle forward @3”? I think it’s only because of these things that I was able to get there.

Hh

 

[79INA69]

Did I mention that I have a 3” body lift and I moved the engine up 1.5” and the front axle forward @3”? I think it’s only because of these things that I was able to get there.

Hh

Yeah, the 3-4" BL is a big help on a lot of things. Majority of Broncos have a 3" for good reason. It seems to hide well on the EB's, better than most vehicles. My current engine is already too high. I plan on cutting up the front of the oil pan to gain another inch away from the diff eventually. For now, just trying to get it on the trail.

 

[Hinmaton]

Yeah, the 3-4" BL is a big help on a lot of things. Majority of Broncos have a 3" for good reason. It seems to hide well on the EB's, better than most vehicles. My current engine is already too high. I plan on cutting up the front of the oil pan to gain another inch away from the diff eventually. For now, just trying to get it on the trail.

I was helping a friend work on his YJ on tons with high steer, and then I realized that the oil pan on the 4.0HO six cylinder is long and shallow accept where it drops at the pick up, which is almost under the steering wheel.
There is soooooo much room there.
It’s ridiculous!
Moving my axle forward 3” helped a lot with the clearance on my oil pan. One could easily design a high clearance sbf oil pan.


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[Hinmaton]

I took the time to take as-builts on my suspension. I’m pretty happy where I ended up. I just updated the Z dimensions, I’m sure the X changed a bit, but I’m feeling lazy and it’s hot in the garage.
At some point I’m going to calculate the true center of gravity, which could change things a bit. I just used the highest bolt on the bell housing.

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