Pwr Strg pump output...which pump has the MOST gpm/psi?

[Broncobowsher]

I did some number crunching on keeping my 5 3/4" Exploder pulley and what the difference would be if I dropped down to the 4 1/2" pulley PSC now wants me to use...

If I'm idling at my same 800 rpm with a smaller 4 1/2" pulley on my pump it would be the equivalent of idling at 1022rpm now with the size of the current pulley...

SO I went out to the Bronco and cranked the strg wheel as fast as I could at 800...definitely pushing against the ram

--- but I'm surprised how much resistance it takes to turn the wheel...no pinky spinning the wheel on this...

Increased rpm to 1050 or so and I was still against the ram - but it didn't seem to be as much...

Raised the front end off the floor and did both 800 and 1050 rpm "crank the strg wheel" test...felt exactly the same. so it's not the resistance of the tires causing me to use a fair bit of effort to turn the strg wheel on a power strg system AND ram assist...

Went out to my wife's Honda CRV and cranked the wheel as fast as I could at idle...WOW, this is what I want...easy and as fast as I could turn it. Damn Japanese... lol

Went out to the barn and fired up my Duramax...almost the same as the Bronco...same stiffness to turn the wheel but I didn't feel like I was "up against" the ram at all. 800 and 1050 (appr) both felt the same.


Does the CBR pump use the same 3 bolt mounting holes as the SSR/Trailblazer/LS2 pump???

Not knowing the vintage of the CRV, but most of the new cars are electric power steering. No pump at all. An electric motor often in the steering column does the assist directly. The rack and pinion is manual. The new F150 has been electric rack for a few years now. Big motors, high amp draw. Open the hood and look for power steering fluid

 

[ntsqd]

TRW was in pre-production on those when I was still in college in Chico. We tried to get one for the school's project EV and they weren't interested.

 

[nvrstuk]

Yes, I know my wife's CRV is electric... I could easily slap in a 200amp alternator!! Electric pump and I'm good to go...maybe I'll mount it on the roof!! I'm out of under the hood space and more stuff still has to fit up front...

I've got some phone calling to do at 8AM EST...

I ordered in a cheeeep Mastpro garbage CBR pump from a 2005 SSR/Trailblazer w/o a reservoir...see if it could physically fit in my cramped space next to my York.

thanks...

 

[Broncobowsher]

There is a difference between an all electric steering and an electric over hydraulic system. What they have in common is there is no dependency on engine speed.

 

[nvrstuk]

Agreed, I remember when electic strg came out in cars and it took them a while to get the correct "feel" in the strg wheel...they've got it dialed in now...

 

[nvrstuk]

Well, I have a similar but different thread on this but the pump to go to now is the CBR pump (at least the aftermarket guys are telling me this)...1600 psi and 3.5gpm plus (like Yeller said)...STOCK. Go to the parts store and pick one up for a LOT less than buying a modified stock pump from one of the aftermarket companies.

If you generate let's say 2x that amount of flow with some other huge pump then all you have is the generation of more heat due to it bypassing continually... I know that GM started equipping some of their passenger cars with p/s coolers equipped with this pump after heat became an issue

 

[Yeller]

when parts shopping GM uses a wide variety of pressures in pumps for the same engine options. Cadillac always has the highest pressure of all the factory pumps. Many of the trucks only make 900-1200 (depending on year and model) but Cadillac's are always 1600+, I guess folks expect a Cadillac to well steer like a Cadillac

 

[nvrstuk]

After drilling out the actual 6AN output fitting on my CB pump I now have "Cadillac" strg...I lost a lot of strg "feel" when cruising down a country road. Strg is so light...it will be interesting to see what happens with the correct pulley and with 20% more psi?

 

[68ford]

What diameter did you drill the fitting out too? Having a hard time seeing how this made such a difference when the hole diameter in that fitting is the same as the hose ends on all the pressure hoses and fittings on the ram.

 

[ntsqd]

Sounds like you may want the un-drilled fitting back when the new pulley is installed.

 

[nvrstuk]

Wayne, interesting thing was the stock fitting (or at least maybe what PSC put on it 10 yrs back, was appr. .141" dia...I drilled it out to .188" as per their instructions. This was a 6AN fitting with the O-ring on it... I couldn't believe it was such a choke point...

ALL my other 6AN fittings that I have installed are not stepped down ...

I will be replacing ALL my 6AN braided lines as these TPFE lines are all a full 1/16" min smaller ID than a typical 3/8" hydraulic hose. appr 36" to the HB, 36" back from the HB and then 48" to the cooler... removing all this smaller ID line might help some also... no more bling!! Only bling I had on my whole rig! lol

ntsqd- I am concerned about strg feel when the smaller pulley AND the new bypass valve to increase pressure to 1600 psi is installed...will be interesting... can't get any easier to turn-seriously...must take about 3inlbs to rotate the strg wheel while driving down a road...

 

[ntsqd]

Brian, I suppose you could have a slightly stiffer torsion bar put in the steering box to gain back some road feel. Or you could modify the fitting to hold jet pills (Sprint Car constant flow injection parts?) and tune the road feel vs. low engine speed assist.

EDIT: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hilborn-Flowed-Fuel-Injector-Pills,8809.html No, I'm not helping, am I? LOL

 

[nvrstuk]

Dang, sometimes I think I live in a cave here in farm country!!!

I might get to that point for the strg box...all I know is that I will disconnect the ram for Moab in a couple weeks rather than fight the slow turn issue if these mod's don't help.

Not sure how you get used to not being able to turn the strg wheel when needed...maybe at idle I go to fast??? LOL

Where in the world do you find different torsion bars for a '78 Bronco/F150 strg box...not sure they are used on the Gymkana courses much!

 

[ntsqd]

I'll bet the PS box builders know what bars will fit. Wouldn't surprise me if the t-bar from a Fairmont Station Wagon or a Police Interceptor LTD can be used in the truck box.

 

[nvrstuk]

WoooHooo...something else to help "pioneer" for our Bronco's!

I'm determined...

Good idea Tom...

 

[68ford]

I'm wondering if I'm fighting the torsion bar tension on my set up? It's a brand new 3.5 turn PSC box with their smallest diameter ram which I believe is 1.5 in. I have a Saginaw pump out of the 2007 Duramax obviously with hydroboost. The steering is stiff. Makes no difference what the engine speed is or if you're going fast or slow it's always the same. It's all so slow to turn though regardless of engine speed. I have a 1.5 to 1 overdrive on the steering column making it a 2 turn lock to lock set up. Obviously when I'm turning the wheel fast I'm asking a lot of the system. But my stock for turn box with the overdrive turned quick like normal. At ride height I have a 12.5 degrees caster so I would think when counter steering or trying to turn the wheels back to straight it would go somewhat normal?

 

[68ford]

As mentioned prior by somebody else, if my front axle is raised in the air and the engine is running the steering is stiffer than when I had the stock box. Not sure if that's relevant but it seems like it is at this point.

 

[nvrstuk]

68 Ford, my 1.5" cylinder added early last week caused similar symptoms...

My strg was stiffer and slower with the ram with the wheels off the ground...

It's better now after drilling out the port fitting .040" , and hopefully next week with the smaller pulley combined with the increased pressure up to an anticipated 1600psi steering effort will be the same whether I'm trying to crank it as fast possible at idle or cruising at 50mph down a county road... although right now there is ZERO effort required to move the streering wheel at all when cruising...I mean zero effort...

I will update after I install the smaller pulley and the valving that PSC would bring the pressure up to 1600 (I measured 1350 psi on my box).

 

[Broncobowsher]

I'm wondering if I'm fighting the torsion bar tension on my set up? It's a brand new 3.5 turn PSC box with their smallest diameter ram which I believe is 1.5 in. I have a Saginaw pump out of the 2007 Duramax obviously with hydroboost. The steering is stiff. Makes no difference what the engine speed is or if you're going fast or slow it's always the same. It's all so slow to turn though regardless of engine speed. I have a 1.5 to 1 overdrive on the steering column making it a 2 turn lock to lock set up. Obviously when I'm turning the wheel fast I'm asking a lot of the system. But my stock for turn box with the overdrive turned quick like normal. At ride height I have a 12.5 degrees caster so I would think when counter steering or trying to turn the wheels back to straight it would go somewhat normal?

Keep in mind that the steering quickener is a gearbox. While it quickens the action, it is also a multiplier. It will take 1.5 times the effort at the steering wheel that you would normally need at the steering box.

 

[68ford]

Keep in mind that the steering quickener is a gearbox. While it quickens the action, it is also a multiplier. It will take 1.5 times the effort at the steering wheel that you would normally need at the steering box.

For sure. When I say stiffer and slower I'm comparing it to a stock 76 box that performed great with the quickener. With the 76 4 turn box I could always turn as fast as I could turn the steering wheel. New set up not the case. The ram is super nice when hitting basketball size rocks at over 40mph and not feeling it in the wheel and when going slow in rocks I can always turn. The stiff part is not even a big deal. My biggest issue is slow turning.