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running a 351 cam in a 302??
- Thread starter Miker
- Start date
oleguy74
Bronco Guru
change to 351 fireing order.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 24,335
Re-arrange the plug wires.
bronko69er
EB Addict
So bearing sizes and locations are the same?
What about max lift on the the rockers/springs?
What about max lift on the the rockers/springs?
Broncobowsher
Total hack
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2002
- Messages
- 35,058
Ok, then use the 302 HO firing order. It is a good compromise between the 302 firing order and the 351 firing order.
bronko69er
EB Addict
Ha Ha, good one. ;D
fireman1749
Sr. Member
There's not really a point of doing that... just run a 302 cam like the engine was built for... a .484 lift cam with headers, aluminum intake, and 4 barrel carb makes a mean little engine for limited money
GOODOLEBOY84
Jr. Member
i read somewhere one time that the 351 cam was actually better for the 302, it supposedly puts less stress on the crankshaft and main bearing, its suppose to make for more even pressure on the crank from front to back, dont quote me on this i just read that, also thats supposedly why for went to the 351 firing order with the 5.0 ho
Hal9000
Bronco Guru
No idea about that, but my little brother went the other way at the recommendation of the performance shop that did his engine work. Their reasoning was that there were more cam choices for the 302 than the 351.
I run one
I run a 351 cam in my 302....Good friend of mine use to own a large Race Motor and fab shop, mainly "Moutain Motors" but they did a lot of SB Fords also....His son ran a Torino in the stock class, so squeezing torque and HP out of that 302 was important......
I have seen the results of running the dual grind version of the 351 cam in the 289/302 first hand, and it's very good... With the dual grinds one can run a much "hotter" profile and produce more torque and HP than with the common "RV" and/or "Torque" cam. I was amazed when I saw the results in a 71 302 with stock heads, long tube headers, stock style 4V intake, Holley 650 vac sec, 9:1 cast pistons and MSD ing....
Saw the results of multiple runs with the same engine only changes were with cam and lifters (several types of lifters were used from mech to Rhoads)
In each run the engine tested with the temp at 220 deg + or - 5 deg and on 90 oct pump gas
Based on these results I put in a Lunati 351 firing order Voodoo cam with Rhoads lifters (there are many brands offer the same type of grinds)
I also saw the results with the same set up and high flow heads and wow! Some day I will change my heads.....
Later,
Nick
I run a 351 cam in my 302....Good friend of mine use to own a large Race Motor and fab shop, mainly "Moutain Motors" but they did a lot of SB Fords also....His son ran a Torino in the stock class, so squeezing torque and HP out of that 302 was important......
I have seen the results of running the dual grind version of the 351 cam in the 289/302 first hand, and it's very good... With the dual grinds one can run a much "hotter" profile and produce more torque and HP than with the common "RV" and/or "Torque" cam. I was amazed when I saw the results in a 71 302 with stock heads, long tube headers, stock style 4V intake, Holley 650 vac sec, 9:1 cast pistons and MSD ing....
Saw the results of multiple runs with the same engine only changes were with cam and lifters (several types of lifters were used from mech to Rhoads)
In each run the engine tested with the temp at 220 deg + or - 5 deg and on 90 oct pump gas
Based on these results I put in a Lunati 351 firing order Voodoo cam with Rhoads lifters (there are many brands offer the same type of grinds)
I also saw the results with the same set up and high flow heads and wow! Some day I will change my heads.....
Later,
Nick
Most SBF cams are dual grinds. Usually the ones that are not are produced by companies that started out making ch#vy grinds most of which are not dual grinds. Dual grinds are usually better for SBF's due to the poor exhuast ports.
Every cam is different with different specs seeing more power out of a hotter cam is usually the result. But keep in mind its also higher in the RPM range. the thing with RV type cams is that power is lower in the RPM range.
Most companies offer the same exact grind for 302's and 351's with just a firing order differance. So the 351vs 302 differance is really not a issue. But typically a larger engine such as the 351 can handle a larger cam and lose less bottom end than a 302 with the same cam.
Every cam is different with different specs seeing more power out of a hotter cam is usually the result. But keep in mind its also higher in the RPM range. the thing with RV type cams is that power is lower in the RPM range.
Most companies offer the same exact grind for 302's and 351's with just a firing order differance. So the 351vs 302 differance is really not a issue. But typically a larger engine such as the 351 can handle a larger cam and lose less bottom end than a 302 with the same cam.
Hal9000
Bronco Guru
Small point but I think that you guys might be talking about two different things... Dual pattern cams and dual grind cams...
Dual pattern: Different profile on intake and exhaust lobes to adjust for breathing needs of the engine.
Dual grind or dual profile(Like the Lunati voodoo series): Different profile on the opening side and closing side of the cam lobe. the idea is to open quickly and set down slowly to improve the amount of valve-open time and reduce valve float.
If I'm wrong and you're actually talking about the same thing then please feel free to ignore me.
Dual pattern: Different profile on intake and exhaust lobes to adjust for breathing needs of the engine.
Dual grind or dual profile(Like the Lunati voodoo series): Different profile on the opening side and closing side of the cam lobe. the idea is to open quickly and set down slowly to improve the amount of valve-open time and reduce valve float.
If I'm wrong and you're actually talking about the same thing then please feel free to ignore me.
I'd never ignore you.
They are the same things in a sense.
dual pattern is different durations for the intake and exhuast. ie 270/274 duration Single pattern cams are same duration for both intake and exhuast ie 270/270
What your talking about is more related to lobe shape and while it does/can effect overall duration its more suited to roller cams which can stand the effects of a fast closing/opening ramp. Its also the goal in flat tappet cams but the lifters can only rise so fast before wear becomes a issue. And yes it can also be used for both dual and single pattern cams. But still dual profile, dual patten, dual grind name it what you will is all baiscally the same thing.
They are the same things in a sense.
dual pattern is different durations for the intake and exhuast. ie 270/274 duration Single pattern cams are same duration for both intake and exhuast ie 270/270
What your talking about is more related to lobe shape and while it does/can effect overall duration its more suited to roller cams which can stand the effects of a fast closing/opening ramp. Its also the goal in flat tappet cams but the lifters can only rise so fast before wear becomes a issue. And yes it can also be used for both dual and single pattern cams. But still dual profile, dual patten, dual grind name it what you will is all baiscally the same thing.
Hal9000
Bronco Guru
Only reason I brought it up was the mention of the Lunati Voodoo cams. If I'm not mistaken, their big claim to fame was that the profile of the trailing (closing) side of the lobe has greater duration than the opening side. They might be dual pattern as well depending on the application though.
Yea I should have put "dual grind" in quotes, because it is grinding two separate profiles.... Int/Exh dur something like 213/219 and lift 483/489
On the dyno the only place the "RV" won on torque was under the under 1200 -2100 rpm--depending on cam and as long as one did not get too crazy with lift and duration....
Lunati is not the only one many others offer them, I only mentioned Lunati because they provided the cams used in the dyno test....Racing Head Service provided the heads....
Later,
Nick
On the dyno the only place the "RV" won on torque was under the under 1200 -2100 rpm--depending on cam and as long as one did not get too crazy with lift and duration....
Lunati is not the only one many others offer them, I only mentioned Lunati because they provided the cams used in the dyno test....Racing Head Service provided the heads....
Later,
Nick
Thank guys, I appreciate all the insight and pearls of wisdom. Here is the reason why I asked in the first place. The 351 rebuild might come in stages, that is the 302 in the '69 I'm getting is still fairly strong but I COULD put the new cam in the 302 until I was ready to pull it, then just pull the 351 cam and lifters, keep lifters in order, new cam bearings in the 351 and I could "in theory" get two uses out of it. So, having said that, what about this comp cam for both a 302 and 351
Comp. Cam # CL35-238
Advertised duration 262/270
Lift .493/.500
I can give other numbers if it helps you understand what I'm looking at.
I'm trying to get away with not purchasing two camshaft within a year,,,,
Thanks!
Mike
Comp. Cam # CL35-238
Advertised duration 262/270
Lift .493/.500
I can give other numbers if it helps you understand what I'm looking at.
I'm trying to get away with not purchasing two camshaft within a year,,,,
Thanks!
Mike
