Starter/Solenoid making weird noise when turning key?

[vx8]

Hello,

My battery terminal clamp melted yesterday and I put a new thicker ground cable on to fix this, except when I turn the key there is a 'quacking' noise coming from the engine bay.

Post to reddit of my negative terminal clamp: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/cgnxip/managed_to_melt_my_negative_terminal_today/

The starter and solenoid are brand new, so I don't know why that would be an issue.

Post to reddit of the noise it makes when key is turned: https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/chcudj/1976_bronco_making_this_noise_after_battery/

If anyone has had this happen before or knows why this is happening, please let me know! Thank you.

 

[Steve83]

Click this & read the captions:


(phone app link)

 

[DirtDonk]

Sounds like the battery has plenty of power, but either the starter is jammed up or, more likely, the starter relay/solenoid is a failed-right-out-of-the-box unit.

To verify connections you could remove the "S" wire and jump the terminal to the large one with the battery cable on it. Be ready for the starter to spin possibly, but more likely it will just make the same noise.

Do you still have the old one handy to try?
What make and part number is the new one that's making the noise?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

So that's the ground cable and your positive side is over at the fender lip? I notice it looks like your battery is not held down by anything. Is that just a temporary thing while you're working?
Reason I'm asking is that using the stock type battery orientation is not the best plan. Was not one of Ford's 'better ideas" at the time either. But at least from the factory they were held tight so as not to automatically short out on the body panels!

Many of us by the reverse orientation so the negative is on the fender side and the positive is on the engine side.

Oh, and how clean are the mounting points for the new ground cable? And is there a secondary body ground from the battery to the body? If not, that might also cause your starter relay to act up like this.
So if it's not there already, make sure to add at least a 10ga ground wire from the battery to the body.

Paul

 

[vx8]

Sounds like the battery has plenty of power, but either the starter is jammed up or, more likely, the starter relay/solenoid is a failed-right-out-of-the-box unit.

To verify connections you could remove the "S" wire and jump the terminal to the large one with the battery cable on it. Be ready for the starter to spin possibly, but more likely it will just make the same noise.

Do you still have the old one handy to try?
What make and part number is the new one that's making the noise?

Paul

The starter was working up until the battery terminal melted

I just bought a new starter and solenoid, so I don’t know why it would randomly fail after 3 days of having it.

The old starter was given to the store for my core fee back.

 

[vx8]

Oh, and how clean are the mounting points for the new ground cable? And is there a secondary body ground from the battery to the body? If not, that might also cause your starter relay to act up like this.

Oh, It's probably because the old grounding point is covered in 26 year oil and dirt.

I'll clean it off tomorrow and try again.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, it's something I have to deal with regularly on lots of older vehicles. More often than is logical, some people get away with never having to touch this stuff. But all it takes is a nice little concoction of rust, paint, old age, a slightly compromised cable, and all of a sudden we have all sorts of electrical gremlins to fight off.

Still no guarantee this is the issue, but hey, it really never hurts to make sure electrical connections are clean and tight.

I just bought a new starter and solenoid, so I don’t know why it would randomly fail after 3 days of having it.

That was the whole point of my comment, and multiple rants in other threads about new parts. BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE CRAP!
We talk about it here all the time. Thirty years ago you could count on almost any new part being good, so once you replaced an old one with a new one, you could check that part off your list of possible problems. But now, buying new parts actually ADDS to the list of possible suspects because even if the old one was good and not your initial issue, the new one is now on top of the list because they fail so often.
It's so bad with replacement starter relays for Fords, that on another forum there is actually a thread dedicated solely to keeping track of brands, model numbers and how long they worked from the time of installation, or if they even worked at all.
Here on classic there are many stories of brand new starter relays that only worked for a week, or for two or three starts, or not at all.

It's so bad that I suggested that for those that felt they could afford it, to purchase the $60-$80 starter relays instead of the $15-$25 versions, just to see if they're any more reliable.
The desire for cheap parts seems to be at the bottom of all this, but it's not for sure the only reason.

That's why I brought it up. Because your brand new part could literally be what's causing your current problem.
But it never hurts to check grounds anyway!;D

Paul

 

[vx8]

Yep, it's something I have to deal with regularly on lots of older vehicles. More often than is logical, some people get away with never having to touch this stuff. But all it takes is a nice little concoction of rust, paint, old age, a slightly compromised cable, and all of a sudden we have all sorts of electrical gremlins to fight off.

Still no guarantee this is the issue, but hey, it really never hurts to make sure electrical connections are clean and tight.



That was the whole point of my comment, and multiple rants in other threads about new parts. BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE CRAP!
We talk about it here all the time. Thirty years ago you could count on almost any new part being good, so once you replaced an old one with a new one, you could check that part off your list of possible problems. But now, buying new parts actually ADDS to the list of possible suspects because even if the old one was good and not your initial issue, the new one is now on top of the list because they fail so often.
It's so bad with replacement starter relays for Fords, that on another forum there is actually a thread dedicated solely to keeping track of brands, model numbers and how long they worked from the time of installation, or if they even worked at all.
Here on classic there are many stories of brand new starter relays that only worked for a week, or for two or three starts, or not at all.

It's so bad that I suggested that for those that felt they could afford it, to purchase the $60-$80 starter relays instead of the $15-$25 versions, just to see if they're any more reliable.
The desire for cheap parts seems to be at the bottom of all this, but it's not for sure the only reason.

That's why I brought it up. Because your brand new part could literally be what's causing your current problem.
But it never hurts to check grounds anyway!;D

Paul

Thanks for your reply. Turns out the starter was bad, something inside of it broke and now I have a 25 pound maraca. The starter turn on wire had also arc'd and melted. New starter was ordered and new power wires were put in.

 

[vx8]

On trying to crank the car with the new starter and wiring, I had my dad turn the key while I tried to find where the noise was coming from. Next to the starter solenoid, there is a little box with a harness going into it (not an ignition control, that is on the other side of the Bronco) Does anyone know what this is?

 

[Steve83]

That's the (really old & filthy) voltage regulator for the (stock?) alternator.

 

[vx8]

That's the (really old & filthy) voltage regulator for the (stock?) alternator.

Would this stop the car from starting if it went bad?

 

[DirtDonk]

No.
And a new one won't make the noise because it's electronic, whereas your old one is electro-mechanical with breaker points almost like an old distributor has.
Might be making the noise because of a poor connection due to the other issues, as well as potentially a poor ground through it's old rusty body and screws.

Paul

 

[vx8]

No.
And a new one won't make the noise because it's electronic, whereas your old one is electro-mechanical with breaker points almost like an old distributor has.
Might be making the noise because of a poor connection due to the other issues, as well as potentially a poor ground through it's old rusty body and screws.

Paul

She doesn’t start after I cleaned the main block grounding point, installed all new wires, put a new starter in that I bought today so I don’t know what else to blame other than the voltage regulator, any ideas?

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, get out your handy-dandy volt-meter and find out where the power stops.

Is it clicking or cranking at all? Is it doing nothing? Is the power restored to your full vehicle? Did anything change when you replaced the starter? Is the Black wire still connected to the starter relay on the large stud with the battery cable?
If it's not even clicking, then you have to check for voltage at the Red w/blue "S" wire on the starter relay. Did you replace the relay again, or just the starter?

What's it doing?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

...Turns out the starter was bad, something inside of it broke and now I have a 25 pound maraca.

Kind of a bummer. They would not let you exchange it after only a week?
Do you know what broke?

The starter turn on wire had also arc'd and melted.

Which wire is this? What color and where is it located?
I forget if you said, but is this an original style replacement starter, or the more modern PMGR ("mini") starter?

New starter was ordered and new power wires were put in.

Making progress. Which wires did you replace exactly?

Thanks

Paul

 

[vx8]

Kind of a bummer. They would not let you exchange it after only a week?
Do you know what broke?



Which wire is this? What color and where is it located?
I forget if you said, but is this an original style replacement starter, or the more modern PMGR ("mini") starter?



Making progress. Which wires did you replace exactly?

Thanks

Paul

I don’t know what broke inside, I just bought a new starter. It’s a big factory style starter.

The wire that melted is the thick wire that runs to the starter from the solenoid.

The wires I replaced were the positive battery lead to solenoid, the negative grounding cable to block, and the solenoid to starter wire

 

[vx8]

Yes, get out your handy-dandy volt-meter and find out where the power stops.

Is it clicking or cranking at all? Is it doing nothing? Is the power restored to your full vehicle? Did anything change when you replaced the starter? Is the Black wire still connected to the starter relay on the large stud with the battery cable?
If it's not even clicking, then you have to check for voltage at the Red w/blue "S" wire on the starter relay. Did you replace the relay again, or just the starter?

What's it doing?

Paul

It's not clicking or cranking. The only thing I hear is that noise coming from the voltage regulator.I cleaned the block, bolt, and surrounding area where the battery grounds.

I don't understand what you mean by 'S' wire, sorry. I only replaced the starter.

Power is out inside of the vehicle, lights don't come on.

 

[Steve83]

Post pics, as this link explains:

http://www.supermotors.net/forums/thid-5972-how-do-i-post-pictures-sounds-and-or-videos

Lots of them.

 

[DirtDonk]

The "S" wire is the small Red w/blue stripe wire (factory color, or Purple for most aftermarket wiring) on the starter relay/solenoid's "S" post right there adjacent to the large battery stud on the side.
It's a direct wire from the ignition switch on the dash, unless you have a '73 or later Bronco, which would have a break at the firewall for the Neutral Safety Switch on an automatic trans, OR a small loop of wire at the firewall connector if you have a manual trans.

Is your trans an automatic? If so, is the lever fully in Park?

Since you're not getting even a click now, that means that no power is being supplied to the Red w/blue wire OR the starter relay is bad. That's where the volt-meter or test light comes in handy.
The "S" wire is usually just a small 90 degree push-on thing you can pull off by hand and check for power with your tester while a helper turns the key to START.

You can also test the relay by jumping from the battery connection to the S connection directly. Use a screwdriver, or even better a set of pliers with the jaws opened up enough to touch both the battery stud and the S stud on the relay.
Be ready for a surprise if it works, and make sure your trans is in Neutral or Park or you might run over your foot (or worse!) if the starter cranks. If the key is in the OFF position, the engine will not start. But the starter will crank if things are still good.

So you need to find out what is stopping power from getting to your starter, or why still another starter is not working. Remember, that original battery cable melted because there was a HUGE amount of current/amperage trying to pass through it. There are only a few things that can do this, but they're all easy to check.
Run down the power first and we'll talk you through the rest. And yes, pictures would help a lot. I can't tell from your last pics if there is an additional wire under the battery cable or not. There is supposed to be at least one large Black wire on the battery side of the starter relay, and in '74 and later models there is also a small Yellow wire for the horn relay.

What year is yours? An odd mix of parts, but I'm guessing a '76 or a '77?

Paul

 

[vx8]

The "S" wire is the small Red w/blue stripe wire (factory color, or Purple for most aftermarket wiring) on the starter relay/solenoid's "S" post right there adjacent to the large battery stud on the side.
It's a direct wire from the ignition switch on the dash, unless you have a '73 or later Bronco, which would have a break at the firewall for the Neutral Safety Switch on an automatic trans, OR a small loop of wire at the firewall connector if you have a manual trans.

Is your trans an automatic? If so, is the lever fully in Park?

Since you're not getting even a click now, that means that no power is being supplied to the Red w/blue wire OR the starter relay is bad. That's where the volt-meter or test light comes in handy.
The "S" wire is usually just a small 90 degree push-on thing you can pull off by hand and check for power with your tester while a helper turns the key to START.

You can also test the relay by jumping from the battery connection to the S connection directly. Use a screwdriver, or even better a set of pliers with the jaws opened up enough to touch both the battery stud and the S stud on the relay.
Be ready for a surprise if it works, and make sure your trans is in Neutral or Park or you might run over your foot (or worse!) if the starter cranks. If the key is in the OFF position, the engine will not start. But the starter will crank if things are still good.

So you need to find out what is stopping power from getting to your starter, or why still another starter is not working. Remember, that original battery cable melted because there was a HUGE amount of current/amperage trying to pass through it. There are only a few things that can do this, but they're all easy to check.
Run down the power first and we'll talk you through the rest. And yes, pictures would help a lot. I can't tell from your last pics if there is an additional wire under the battery cable or not. There is supposed to be at least one large Black wire on the battery side of the starter relay, and in '74 and later models there is also a small Yellow wire for the horn relay.

What year is yours? An odd mix of parts, but I'm guessing a '76 or a '77?

Paul

I put a new solenoid in, again, and it sounded like she attempted to start, but the battery was at 11 volts. It's on the tender right now and I will try again later tonight. Once I have my dad and/or other people home, I will have them try and turn the key when I probe the push-on connectors to the solenoid.

My dad said he bought a '76, so I guess it's a '76.

Thank you for your patience and continuning to help me. I appreciate it!

EDIT: Charged the battery for a little bit, I felt the starter pinion gear kick out but the battery didn't have enough juice to turn over.