Starter solenoid/ starter wiring question

[ngsd]

Also something in my memory about the centech harness tells me that there were two different purple start wires. I think one was for the neutral safety switch on automatics. I cant remember if they were both hot at crank. I could be wrong here but it is worth a check.

 

[Waverous]

No, are you using the Centech harness? The Purple wire should be hot at crank. if not, that could be the issue. The centech probably came with an aftemarket switch and an adapter to use with a stock switch. Are you using a stock switch or after market generic? still shoud have power at purple though I would think.

I'm using Kwik Wire harness - I like the harness - just difficult to adapt it. As for the switch, are we talking solenoid or ignition - in any case, both my are stock

Want to say thanks for the info - it does help!

 

[ngsd]

I was looking at the Kwik wire diagram. The Purple wire on their generic harness is a neutral safety switch lead. If used without cutting and going directly to the solenoid (on the starter) as mine is and your hot lead from the fender solenoid to the starter lug It should work.

 

[DirtDonk]

OK, I went back and looked at the switch wiring and I have this:
- Red/blue wire running to the "S" post
- Red/green wire running to the coil directly (no resistor wire or ballast present)

With power coming from the key to the coil directly, do I need to run a connection from the coil to the "I" post?

Hmm, what are striped wires doing in a Kwik-Wire harness? Those colors are factory wires or Painless wires, or custom wires only. All other harnesses that I am aware of use generic GM color codes. Most of which do not include stripes.
In your case there should be a Violet/Purple wire to the S post of the starter relay. Not a Red w/blue wire.

If your Red w/blue wire does not run all the way back to the ignition switch then it's probably not connected anywhere. Same for the Red w/green.
With the full 12v to the ignition coil you do NOT need a wire from the "I" terminal of the starter relay to the ignition coil.
In fact you don't have to have it in order for the engine to run even with the stock system. It's just a nice way to get extra power to the coil when starting. But it's not 100% necessary to run.

Yes, I have - the problem is using an aftermarket wire harness and their directions, having a G3 alternator, using a high torque mini starter, and AC - it just takes a while to connect the dots (so to speak). Some of those dots aren't very clear and I want to tap the brains of the true gurus here.

Yep, you have to use external instructions if theirs' don't deal with the variations you've added.
But we definitely need to get to the bottom of why you have two separate wiring color schemes on the same Bronco. A pic of the wiring as it comes out of the firewall behind the engine and in the corners would be a good thing too.

What brand and style of mini starter are you using? As mentioned, that can make a difference on how it's wired.
The wire down to the "S" terminal of your new starter (if it has one) should be connected to the large starter wire stud on the side of the starter relay/solenoid on the fender.

Am I following you correctly - red/blue ignition wire to S post and then onto the mini starter solenoid? Oh and correct regarding purple wire-no power at crank

Ok here we are with the Red w/blue again. Are you sure you don't have a hybrid mixture of wire colors? Some original Ford wires as well as some new Kwik-Wire colors?

Can we have a picture of the back of your ignition switch and another one of your starter relay connections on the fender? Want to see what's going on here.
Sorry for all the questions. But we need to make sure we're all on the same page and looking at the same things. Want to help you correctly rather than blindly.

Thanks

Paul

 

[Waverous]

Hey Paul, my use of "red/green" or "red/blue" is in reference to the spliced wires coming from the ignition switch and continuing to their designated end on the bronco. I used the original wire colors in my description because there isn't an equivalent associated wire in the wire harness. I made the assumption that these wires were not included in the Kwik harness because they do not run through the fuse panel but still needed to be accounted for since they are necessary to activate the fender solenoid / mini starter combination.

 

[chrlsful]

I thought remote auto diagnosis was hard. I see this pretty difficult on-line too.

 

[DirtDonk]

I see what you’re saying I think. The quick wire is mostly fuse panel stuff, but it still needs to have an interface to the ignition switch as well.

And if you have a purple wire, then that is the equivalent of your red with blue. In theory you should not have both.
Purple is the universal color for the start circuit that runs from the ignition switch to the starter relay and takes the place of the original red with blue.
As far as I can tell you should have only one or the other. Not both. If you ran the red with blue wire from the key to the starter relay yourself, then you ignore any purple wires. If you did not personally wire the red with blue from end to end, then you need to use the purple wire that’s included in the quick wire kit.

Did Qwik Wire include instructions and a diagram?

 

[Waverous]

I see what you’re saying I think. The quick wire is mostly fuse panel stuff, but it still needs to have an interface to the ignition switch as well.

And if you have a purple wire, then that is the equivalent of your red with blue. In theory you should not have both.
Purple is the universal color for the start circuit that runs from the ignition switch to the starter relay and takes the place of the original red with blue.
As far as I can tell you should have only one or the other. Not both. If you ran the red with blue wire from the key to the starter relay yourself, then you ignore any purple wires. If you did not personally wire the red with blue from end to end, then you need to use the purple wire that’s included in the quick wire kit.

Did Qwik Wire include instructions and a diagram?

OK Paul - first thanks for your help! Second, I think I wasn't clear when I described the wire colors. My ignition switch has 3 wires - red/green, red/blue, yellow. I spliced a purple NSS wire spliced into the ignition switch red/blue wire, making one wire "red/blue/purple (I couldn't find a red/blue wire to keep it continuous. Red/green wire is spliced into Kwik wire pink -now red/green/pink (also couldn't find appropriate length of red/green wire) Additionally, red/green/pink runs directly to the coil (correctly I hope) since I have removed any resistor stuff.

I hope I have cleared up mistake Paul

Chris

 

[DirtDonk]

Got it. Was wondering how you had both types.

In case you were not already aware, the Yellow wire is the 12v IN to the switch.
The Red w/blue is obviously for the START function as you know.
The Red w/green wire is usually a double-wire (Red w/green AND Green w/red) and you may still need that second one even now that you have a 3G alternator. The original Green w/red was for the old regulator, so could be used to turn on the new alternator. Presumably your Kwik Wire has one, but maybe not if they expect you to use only a "1-wire" alternator. Which a 3G is not...

In addition to that you should have had an original Black w/green wire on that center stud out the backside of the ignition switch. It doubles as the connection for the ACC circuits and for the nut that retains the wire connector on the back of the switch.

So with new wires spliced into the Red w/blue (Purple) and Red w/green (Pink) you should be able to trace power back to each source and load.
The Purple wire should have 12v with the key in START only, which you should be able to measure out at the other end at the starter system. I think you said you don't have power there, so the first thing to do is check the Yellow wire at the ignition switch. See if it has 12v coming in from the battery.
The Pink wire is really for the alternator only, and is hot with the switch in ON only, and not in ACC. This is so you can listen to the radio and not drain the battery from having the alternator live.
What color does QW use for the other accessories? That wire should attach to the center stud on the ignition switch.

With all the back and forth, and me running around here like a chicken with my head cut off, I may have forgotten just what your issue is at the moment. Whether it's just making sure your wires are correct, or finding out why one or another circuit does not function, you'll get it. Hope I don't get off the path too far!
Sounds like you're almost there.

Paul

 

[Waverous]

Got it. Was wondering how you had both types.

In case you were not already aware, the Yellow wire is the 12v IN to the switch.
The Red w/blue is obviously for the START function as you know.
The Red w/green wire is usually a double-wire (Red w/green AND Green w/red) and you may still need that second one even now that you have a 3G alternator. The original Green w/red was for the old regulator, so could be used to turn on the new alternator. Presumably your Kwik Wire has one, but maybe not if they expect you to use only a "1-wire" alternator. Which a 3G is not...

In addition to that you should have had an original Black w/green wire on that center stud out the backside of the ignition switch. It doubles as the connection for the ACC circuits and for the nut that retains the wire connector on the back of the switch.

So with new wires spliced into the Red w/blue (Purple) and Red w/green (Pink) you should be able to trace power back to each source and load.
The Purple wire should have 12v with the key in START only, which you should be able to measure out at the other end at the starter system. I think you said you don't have power there, so the first thing to do is check the Yellow wire at the ignition switch. See if it has 12v coming in from the battery.
The Pink wire is really for the alternator only, and is hot with the switch in ON only, and not in ACC. This is so you can listen to the radio and not drain the battery from having the alternator live.
What color does QW use for the other accessories? That wire should attach to the center stud on the ignition switch.

With all the back and forth, and me running around here like a chicken with my head cut off, I may have forgotten just what your issue is at the moment. Whether it's just making sure your wires are correct, or finding out why one or another circuit does not function, you'll get it. Hope I don't get off the path too far!
Sounds like you're almost there.

Paul

Paul
Sent you a PM (not sure if that is the current terminology used on our new site format)

 

[DirtDonk]

No, but thanks because I still understand PM better!

 

[Waverous]

OK - Thanks to Paul (DirtDonk) and to Nick (ngsd), things are looking up! For those keeping a scorecard, I have 12 volts all the way to my mini starter solenoid on Crank only, 12 volts to the coil, and a properly powered G3 alt!

 

[chrlsful]

is steve83 on here (I have 5 fav forums one is 4eyedpride, it may B there I saw him). Have U seen his 'finished' schematic for this swap? Keeps the fender mounted solinoid, 3G (nota 1 wire) and pmgr starter. (Uses Waverous bronk wires but not sure "kwick's" too).
In ur travels, Paul - have U seen sub looms (pieces to the 5 or 6 harnesses) or the 5 or 6 harnesses made for our rigs? I'd like that rather than a huge total job (time and cost) as I'd like to do (for instance) the rear one wkend (all tail lghts, trailer, winch etc) then when time'n $ permit - the engine (& guages, radio, etc) another l o n g wkend, etc...

 

[DirtDonk]

I believe Centech still has a separate rear harness, and possibly Painless too. Both are partially patterned after the original.

Pretty sure though that they only separate the rear from the rest and don’t have any other sub harnesses. Not that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[chrlsful]

thnx Paul (will get one or other).
(Looks like OP has a partial solution) now back to him: