Trouble getting front axle clip on

[Bronco67&69]

I am working on a 71 bronco front end. I replaced the u-joints, spindle bearing, seals, etc. I used the original spindle, hub, brake backing plate, and lockout hub parts, all cleaned of any rust and dirt. After I properly torqued the axle bearing nuts I tried putting the lockouts together, but cannot get the end of the axle out far enough to put the clip on the end. I tried prying the axle while pushing in on the hub mechanism, with no luck. Only thing I can think of is that the spindle bearing needs to be pressed in further so the axle comes in more, but it was flush with the spindle when I took it apart, so I am baffled. Also, when I took it apart, the spindle seal was on the axle, not in the spindle with the spindle bearing. Since the f150 rear I took apart was the same, I would think that the seal goes on the axle, not in the spindle. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BUCKWILD]

the small axle seal goes inside the spindle so your bearing is not pressed in far enough

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, spindle bearings are not flush. They are recessed. Not by much though. Maybe an 8th of an inch or so? The small spindle bearing seal goes inside of that recess.

Which large spindle seal are you using? Is there a press-in seal on the back of the spindle that the axle shaft register slides in to? Or is it the floating type of seal system?

And did you make sure the thrust washer is oriented properly with the bevel facing away from the spindle? It goes up against the axle shaft so the thrust washer can sit flush.

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and kind of a follow up test question. When you tried prying on the axle shaft were you able to move it in an out at all? Or was it jammed up pretty tight where it was?
Can you spin the u-joint with just your fingers?

 

[Rustytruck]

From the factory my 1974 Bronco inner spindle needle bearings were pressed in flush and no inner packing seals. when I did my Chevy disc brake conversion those used spindles the needle bearings were steppd back for the packing seals. so it was a Dana change thing. personally I use them and would press the needle bearings in to use them especially if your not using the inner snap ring for the locking hubs drive slug on the inner stub axle.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Another common mistake, putting the thrust washer on backwards. The bevel goes toward the U-joint. If you flip it the bevel will keep the thrust washer proud of the axle and eat the clearance to the point the snap right will not go on. You have to take the spindle off again to flip that thrust washer.

 

[Bronco67&69]

Oh, and kind of a follow up test question. When you tried prying on the axle shaft were you able to move it in an out at all? Or was it jammed up pretty tight where it was?
Can you spin the u-joint with just your fingers?

Yes, spindle bearings are not flush. They are recessed. Not by much though. Maybe an 8th of an inch or so? The small spindle bearing seal goes inside of that recess.

Which large spindle seal are you using? Is there a press-in seal on the back of the spindle that the axle shaft register slides in to? Or is it the floating type of seal system?

And did you make sure the thrust washer is oriented properly with the bevel facing away from the spindle? It goes up against the axle shaft so the thrust washer can sit flush.

The seal is just like a rubber o-ring with a bevel on one side. It is not a press-in seal. By floating, do you mean that it gets put on the axle, not in with the spindle bearing? I ask, because when I took it apart, the seal was on the axle, not in with the spindle bearing, and the spindle bearings on each spindle were flush with the backside of the spindle. Seemed wrong to me, but the c clip was on each axle when I took it apart, so I couldn't understand why it would be any different. I do have the trust washer on correctly. I plan to press the bearing in like you advised and put the seal in with it. Since it is not pressed in, I imagine it could have come out when I pulled it apart. Regarding the follow up question, the axle shaft moved out just a bit, but not near enough to get the clip on. I can spin the ujoint with must my fingers. My best thought was to press the spindle bearing in as it seemed that would give me the extra distance needed. Thanks much!

 

[Bronco67&69]

Another common mistake, putting the thrust washer on backwards. The bevel goes toward the U-joint. If you flip it the bevel will keep the thrust washer proud of the axle and eat the clearance to the point the snap right will not go on. You have to take the spindle off again to flip that thrust washer.

I did put that on correctly. I believe that pressing in the spindle bearing enough that the seal fits inside with it will resolve the problem. I just cant figure out how the clip was on when I took it apart, because the spindle bearing was flush and the seal was on the axle. I will find out tonight when I press the bearing in enough for the seal to fit in with it. Thanks much!

 

[DirtDonk]

Regarding the floating seal, I was referring to the large seal. The small o-ring type (with one open face that I've always pointed inside toward the spindle bearing, but there is no consensus) is the "spindle bearing seal" and is not pressed in other than just a light fit. Can easily become dislodged, but for some reason they don't ever seem to.
The floating vs non-floating seals are the large "axle seal" for lack of a better term.
On some models/years the Bronco got a large seal that did in fact press into the back of the spindle. Looks like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Spindle_Seal_6672yr/Bronco_Dana30
The spindles that use this type are obvious with their recess and this type of seal seats on the axle shaft seal surface tightly, like a wheel bearing seal. In fact it looks just like a wheel bearing or front cover crank seal.

The other type that floats, I used to call a "bellows" seal because it had a couple of convolutions that would have made a good bellows if you'd put a few of them together. Can't remember what it's actual name is, but it just floats on the axle in the area between the back of the spindle and the thrust washer surface of the outer axle shaft. Looks like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Spindle_Outer_Axle_Seal/bronco_axle_shafts_front
It's not pressed into anything, but it really has nowhere to go either, being stuck in between everything. More of a dust shield than a grease-tight seal you find elsewhere on our trucks.

There is still some debate (mostly by me I think) on just when they changed. We list it up to 72 1/2 but I've never worked on a 44 that used this style of seal. My '71 and two different friend's early '72's all used the later style floating seal shown for the later applications.
The reason I even asked about it is because if you use one style with the other's spindle and axle, you can get binding.

Back though, to the fact that it worked fine before, if you did not change the type of seal you had on previously, I can't think of any reason that the components behind the spindle would have jammed up your axle. Even that little bitty o-ring spindle seal does not seem enough to do it, but I suppose if it's sitting just right, that could be the difference of fitting a snap-ring to not.

Good luck!

Paul

 

[Bronco67&69]

the small axle seal goes inside the spindle so your bearing is not pressed in far enough

That was the problem. All together now. Thanks

 

[Bronco67&69]

Regarding the floating seal, I was referring to the large seal. The small o-ring type (with one open face that I've always pointed inside toward the spindle bearing, but there is no consensus) is the "spindle bearing seal" and is not pressed in other than just a light fit. Can easily become dislodged, but for some reason they don't ever seem to.
The floating vs non-floating seals are the large "axle seal" for lack of a better term.
On some models/years the Bronco got a large seal that did in fact press into the back of the spindle. Looks like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Spindle_Seal_6672yr/Bronco_Dana30
The spindles that use this type are obvious with their recess and this type of seal seats on the axle shaft seal surface tightly, like a wheel bearing seal. In fact it looks just like a wheel bearing or front cover crank seal.

The other type that floats, I used to call a "bellows" seal because it had a couple of convolutions that would have made a good bellows if you'd put a few of them together. Can't remember what it's actual name is, but it just floats on the axle in the area between the back of the spindle and the thrust washer surface of the outer axle shaft. Looks like this: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Spindle_Outer_Axle_Seal/bronco_axle_shafts_front
It's not pressed into anything, but it really has nowhere to go either, being stuck in between everything. More of a dust shield than a grease-tight seal you find elsewhere on our trucks.

There is still some debate (mostly by me I think) on just when they changed. We list it up to 72 1/2 but I've never worked on a 44 that used this style of seal. My '71 and two different friend's early '72's all used the later style floating seal shown for the later applications.
The reason I even asked about it is because if you use one style with the other's spindle and axle, you can get binding.

Back though, to the fact that it worked fine before, if you did not change the type of seal you had on previously, I can't think of any reason that the components behind the spindle would have jammed up your axle. Even that little bitty o-ring spindle seal does not seem enough to do it, but I suppose if it's sitting just right, that could be the difference of fitting a snap-ring to not.

Good luck!

Paul

All together after pressing the bearing in more and putting the seal in with it. Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

Great news! Another problem solved.

 

[BUCKWILD]

any time we can help solve problems