Will Another .75* of Caster Help?

[Ol'Blue]

My '77 has WH 4.5" coils, 33x12.5" tires, 6.25* C bushings, JD radius arm drop brackets (set at bottom hole), and 1.5* eccentrics at max and still have the wander and still have only achieved 2.4* of caster per my alignment shop.

I have 7* C bushings ready to go in, but "wander" if a measly .75* will even help?????

There is NO slop in steering and steering box seams tight. ALL bushings, adj. track bar, WH three way adj. "T" style steering, coils, coil cups, ball joints, are all new!


I'm stumped, thanks

 

[NicksTrix]

how much toe are you running?

sure the C bushings are in correctly?

curious who makes a 6.25 C bushing? I'm not familiar with that version.

 

[Broncobowsher]

And...
How are the rear springs, namely the bushings? Not all wander is caused by the front axle.

4½" of lift on a '77, What have you done for steering and track bar?

I doubt you would notice the extra ¾° of caster. You could get that much change just in the way the bushings are put into the arms.

 

[Ol'Blue]

how much toe are you running?

sure the C bushings are in correctly?

curious who makes a 6.25 C bushing? I'm not familiar with that version.

I'm running 3/8" inch of toe.
James Duff sells the 6.25 * bushings and they are installed correctly.

Thanks

 

[Ol'Blue]

And...
How are the rear springs, namely the bushings? Not all wander is caused by the front axle.

4½" of lift on a '77, What have you done for steering and track bar?

I doubt you would notice the extra ¾° of caster. You could get that much change just in the way the bushings are put into the arms.

Rear springs are WH 3.5" and New bushings.

Adjustable track bar and axle has been centered. I just installed the WH three way adjustable T style drag link and tie rods. Stock PS with drop pitman arm. Drag link and track bar are at good angles and paralell.

 

[Ol'Blue]

Update

I decided to go back on Re-check everything. I noticed that the pitman arm was pointing toward the drivers side by at least 20*....maybe more! I had it almost straight back, as it should, be when I installed the draglink and tie rod. The guy must have changed it when he set the alignment.

Easy fix. Got the pitman arm back where it should be and bingo NO MORE WANDERING!

I also added about 1/16" of toe.

Time for a beer!

 

[Broncobowsher]

pointing at the drivers tire at about 20° is correct for a stock bronco steering box.
You may want to check that you have full steering lock to lock at this point.

 

[Ol'Blue]

pointing at the drivers tire at about 20° is correct for a stock bronco steering box.
You may want to check that you have full steering lock to lock at this point.[/QUOTE

I may be off in estimating degrees. A better way to describe it is, my pitman arm is suppose to be one spline toward the drivers side and I would say it was closer to 4 or 5. It was pointing at the middle of the coil.

I checked lock to lock and my damper needs adjustment. Its restricting full right turn but easily fixed or may ditch it altogether.

 

[Ol'Blue]

Have been driving it quite a bit lately and drives so much better after these improvement.

I plan to flat tow behind the RV, so want to get it dialed in as much as possible.

One more concern is, when coming out of a turn the steering wheel doesnt come back to center on its own.

Is there any way to correct/improve this?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[blazinchuck]

Have been driving it quite a bit lately and drives so much better after these improvement.

I plan to flat tow behind the RV, so want to get it dialed in as much as possible.

One more concern is, when coming out of a turn the steering wheel doesnt come back to center on its own.

Is there any way to correct/improve this?

Thanks for all the help!

may need more or less caster...i think caster helps with steering returning

 

[Apogee]

may need more or less caster...i think caster helps with steering returning

More positive caster will increase the return to center. Though the .75 degrees offered by the 7 degree bushings isn't much, they're cheap and it would be a step in the right direction, no matter how small. My '77 has a 3.5" lift, 33" tires, CAGE arms with ~4.25 degrees built-in caster IRRC and 7 degree bushings...drives great with good return to center. My CAGE kit included 4 degree bushings and that wasn't cutting it, so I swapped them out for the 7's and have been much happier since...my front pinion angle is another story.

If you really want to fix the issue, you could rotate the knuckles and set your caster to whatever you want with zero degree bushings, all without negatively impacting your driveshaft angles at the same time. I would aim for about double what you currently have and go for 5-7 degrees caster with a power steering application. That's my plan when I swap to a HP D44.

 

[Ol'Blue]

More positive caster will increase the return to center. Though the .75 degrees offered by the 7 degree bushings isn't much, they're cheap and it would be a step in the right direction, no matter how small. My '77 has a 3.5" lift, 33" tires, CAGE arms with ~4.25 degrees built-in caster IRRC and 7 degree bushings...drives great with good return to center. My CAGE kit included 4 degree bushings and that wasn't cutting it, so I swapped them out for the 7's and have been much happier since...my front pinion angle is another story.

If you really want to fix the issue, you could rotate the knuckles and set your caster to whatever you want with zero degree bushings, all without negatively impacting your driveshaft angles at the same time. I would aim for about double what you currently have and go for 5-7 degrees caster with a power steering application. That's my plan when I swap to a HP D44.

I had been reading on rotating the knuckles, seams to be the way to go. I thought if I was going to change to 7* bushings, then I should just keep tearing it apart and do the rotation. Good advice, thanks!

 

[u10072]

Here is another option. You run a 33" tire and probably really dont need a full 4.5" lift-- and if you run fender flares probably could easily swing a 2.5" lift. If you went down a full 1", add the 7* C-bushings I bet the steering feel would be measurable difference and feel so much better. Dont get me wrong rotating the knuckles is a great idea but if you could fix the problem for about $75 I wouldnt mess with the turning-- $75 because someone will buy them from you pretty easily. If you dont have cut fenders and need just an extra inch the 1" body lift WH sells is a great great great modification. If it were my truck I would run a 2 1/2" lift and the 1" body lift with 33's - with cut outs that suspension and 35's fit as well.

 

[Ol'Blue]

Update

So this weekend I went ahead and installed the 7* bushings and it did make a noticeable improvement. Steering seams tighter, more responsive and slightly better returning to center after a turn.

I double checked the installation of the old bushings, and they were in correctly and were stamped 6 1/4" but comparing them to the new ones, they looked much thinner.

Can the bushings compress and lose their caster over time?

I plan to take it back for alignment check to get some real numbers. Will be interesting if I gained more then .75* of caster.

Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

While I would say it's not likely to deform much, I would think it's at least possible for them to compress some over the years. Not high on the list of possibilities, but not impossible either.
Will be interested to see the difference.

While you're messing around, I would play with the toe-in as well. Normally 3/8" is pretty high. You would at least get some more data by changing it around and driving it for a day each time.
Mine's happiest at 3/16" but works differently with different tires.

Paul