'74 Tie rod end replacement, spindle too small

[bahowe1]

Hey guys. I've done some searching but can't seem to find the same issue, but I'm hoping many of you have experienced it and know the answer.

'74. With wheels on the ground, when I turn the wheel, I've noticed I have some slight play in the tie rod ends and drag link. I've let it be and just enjoyed the rig, but finally bit the bullet and bought the tie rod end/drag link adjustable kit to replace it all.
This afternoon I went out to knock out the job and ended up with a head scratcher. I noticed the castle nuts on the ends were not really snug, but cotter pins were in place. At first I thought maybe I should have not bought the parts yet and instead just snugged them up, so I did, but noticed I ran out of threads on the tie rod ends before it got snug.
So, I hoped the new kit was appropriately sized. However, I noticed the same thing. Because the nut runs out of threads, it means the tapers of the holes are not contacting and tightening the connection. The drag link appears correct, it's only the tie rod ends.
I've never seen anything like this before, but it's the same on both sides. Any thoughts on how to fix this? I can't imagine as thick as the steel is that the hole has wallowed out??
Thanks in advance!

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, use a flat washer under the nut. Good luck

 

[SteveL]

Does it have disc brakes? You might have full size knuckles on it from a disc swap. If so that's a good thing but you need to buy adapter bushings for the stock taper tie rods to fit the hole. Bc Broncos makes em but you might be able to find em closer at another vendor.

 

[bahowe1]

Thanks guys. No, it doesn't have disc brakes, and it all looks to be old school stock stuff.
I will try flat washers today, i'm a bit concerned that I will run out of post before it starts to snug up.
I will let you know the outcome.
Thanks!

 

[SteveL]

If the holes in the knuckles are just wore out and loose you might be able to borrow the correct reamer and use the same bushings to tighten it back up.

 

[bahowe1]

Steve! You are the man. I really wasn’t paying attention, but yes! It has discs. Forgive me, I just really haven’t been under this thing, mainly just worked on the motor and then have driven it.
I went ahead and tried to put flat washers on top, I think I can get them to snug, but it seems to be squashing the boots.
Is there was way to know if it’s the full size swap?

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, post up a pic of it and someone can tell you.
Or find the part numbers usually cast into one side of the steering arm near the tie-rod.

Another possibility is that you got the rod ends for the '76 and '77 Broncos, which are smaller than the standard Bronco size.
But with disc brakes, the higher likelihood is the too-large hole.

If the boots are crushing, stop where you are and use the shims. The boots won't last very long once they're crushing down.
If you determine they are full size knuckles, this shim pair should fit the bill: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tapered_Sleeves_for_F150_Knuckles/Custom_tie_rods

Good luck.

Paul

 

[bahowe1]

Two photos are attached, if anyone can help tell me if I need these shims for this configuration. Thanks!!
I will also be replacing the boots. I took off the boot in the one picture so you could see how close it is before it even starts to snug up.
I didn’t look at the part number under the truck, but from the pic it looks like maybe a 218?

 

[SteveL]

Most likely they're full size knuckles. If they were 76-77 disc knuckles your stock tie-rod set up wouldnt be wide enough to bolt up. The other option are chevy knuckles but I'm not sure what taper they have.

 

[WILDHORSES]

Solutions. Personaly I like the first one. If you got the tie rod from us we can swap it out Center link and two ends. Sleeves are the same.

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_for_F150_Knuckles_Two_Way_Adjustable/Custom_tie_rods

or https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Tie_Rod_for_F150_Knuckles_Two_Way_Adjustable/Custom_tie_rods

Jim

 

[DirtDonk]

Those are flat-top knuckles it looks like, so not Ford. While there were flat-top driver's side knuckles on Ford SuperCabs, I'm pretty sure the passenger side did not have one.
GM, Dodge and some Jeeps may have had them both, but again, not sure.

How about a pic of the brakes themselves, just to see what they are.

Thanks

Paul

 

[bahowe1]

Awesome guys. I will get a picture tomorrow of the brakes so hopefully we can identify. So to be clear, it is not certain that the shims would work? Is there a chance I could measure bore at the largest diameter side? I have calipers (and know how to use them)...

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, measure for sure. Just in case and so we have another data point just in case it does not become obvious right away which path to take.
The shims would certainly "work" but there still exists the possibility that they would be too big and then you'd have the opposite problem. When I tried putting EB-sized tie-rod ends into a full-size knuckle (my '71 uses '76 pickup brakes and knuckles) the rod end studs just went straight up into the hole and flopped around loosely. Yours seems to be tightening up, which may mean that your holes are smaller.

The option listed above with the new tie-rod and the proper ends for the full-size might be the next best thing, especially if they're the type that have the two cotter pin holes at different heights for different applications (not sure which one has those, but they're a godsend for slightly mis-matched parts!) which might cover the bases.

Once you get the measurements someone at WH hopefully will be able to measure a set.
I did at one point, but I can only find the pics of the shims themselves, and not the caliper readings. Typical of my computer organization skills!

Good luck.

Paul

 

[SteveL]

Could always go to the local ap store and get the shorter tie-rod end for a 78 bronco. Test it in your knuckle. Then you know if the shim will work. Then return the 78 tie-rod. Might be easier than trying to measure the taper depending on what tools you have.

 

[DirtDonk]

Good idea Steve!

Paul

 

[bahowe1]

Thanks for all the help so far guys! I’ll have to try and measure in a bit, maybe tomorrow. But... I did snap a few more pictures to see if that might help. If not mistaken, I think picture 4 script is Ford. I can actually see it in the picture better than the caliper.

 

[DirtDonk]

Someone will have the exact info based on the numbers, I'm sure. But those would appear to me to be the very desirable late seventies Super Cab brakes and knuckles.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

The tell for me is that the brakes are Ford, and the driver's knuckle is set up for the 3-bolt steering arm.
The caliper brackets look a little odd, and the passenger side turns out to not be a flat-top knuckle after all. And in the end the steering arms themselves (where the tie rod mounts) look higher than the normal arms. Also indicative of the Super Cab setup.

So far so good! Hopefully those that know can confirm.

paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Never mind the "odd" comment. Looking again the caliper brackets look pretty normal except for just one angle.

I would double-check the retainer bolts. At least one of them looks like it's not anchored all the way.
But be careful as they are notorious for breaking off due to rusting in the hole. Soak them for awhile with some penetrant and hope for the best.
The sliding anchor bar looks like it's been replaced, so it's possible that the notches for the bolt's cone seat are not large enough for it to seat properly. The idea is for the cone shape under the head of the bolt to wedge itself into the notch in the plate. If the notches are too small it just bottoms out too soon.
Should still work, but it's not optimal and the bolt sticks out. Might not be torquing properly.

Anyway, just make sure that it's not going to fall out.

Paul

 

[bahowe1]

Thank you. It looks like I need to spend some time looking them over really well. Thank you for all this info!! Hopefully someone will chime in soon to verify what I have so we will know the shims would work. Or are you already pretty confident they will with what you see?