It’s cut and turn time

[TheLimeRanger]

Biting the bullet. Pulled the Dana 44 today. Going to have it cut and turned. I’m done with it driving like garbage. 1.8 degrees and 1.6 degrees after a 2.5” lift and 7 degree bushings. Yes they were in correctly. Going to do this once and going to do this right. I’ll keep you all posted

 

[EPB72]

I’d mark the current location on both side , at the end of the axle tube and inner C use a punch, chisel or even a cut off wheel I do it at the tube opening where the axle slides into , ,, are you doing it or?

 

[TheLimeRanger]

I’m having it done. This is WAAAAY above my skill set.

 

[DirtDonk]

Have you got a set of 2° bushings ready to go in?

 

[bax]

Have you got a set of 2° bushings ready to go in?

I prefer to set up using 4 degree bushings. I think you get more degree options using 4 as a starting point.

 

[TheLimeRanger]

Have you got a set of 2° bushings ready to go in?

Ordering them this week!

 

[TheLimeRanger]

I prefer to set up using 4 degree bushings. I think you get more degree options using 4 as a starting point.

My original plan was to use 2 degree after they turn the c’s back roughly 19 degrees. Should give me around 6.5 degrees overall. Is there an advantage to using 4 degree bushings?.

 

[DirtDonk]

I prefer to set up using 4 degree bushings. I think you get more degree options using 4 as a starting point.

What kind of options do you need, when you’re setting the caster yourself?
Using them in reverse gives you a higher pinion angle, but is it really necessary?
In theory, 0° would give you the proper pinion angle, but since polyurethane doesn’t come in zero, 2° seems to the next best bet.
And if needed to compensate by using them in reverse, seems like it would be a more natural angle than four.
At least that’s my thinking. Very curious to see what your thoughts are.

 

[DirtDonk]

My original plan was to use 2 degree after they turn the c’s back roughly 19 degrees. Should give me around 6.5 degrees overall. Is there an advantage to using 4 degree bushings?.

Where did you come up with 19°? And how does 2 get you back to 6.5?
My math says a 19° turn would give you 20.8 on one side. Adding 2 more (bushings installed correctly/normally) would give you 22.8. Doesn’t compute.
Even using them backwards to raise the pinion would still only get you back too 18.8.
Seems excessive
Or was there a typo in there somewhere? Missing a decimal point perhaps?

 

[EPB72]

Where did you come up with 19°? And how does 2 get you back to 6.5?
My math says a 19° turn would give you 20.8 on one side. Adding 2 more (bushings installed correctly/normally) would give you 22.8. Doesn’t compute.
Even using them backwards to raise the pinion would still only get you back too 18.8.
Seems excessive
Or was there a typo in there somewhere? Missing a decimal point perhaps?

yeah 19 seems excessive..... 7-9 * seems the norm ,,, and at 9* you may encounter your tie rod [T style] to have contact with trackbar lower mounting area when your steering full left or right .. as well as your diff cover when running a aftermarket heavy cover ,, this can happen about a 1/4 inch before you hit the steering stops ,

I iso tried 2* bushings backwards ,, had good pinion angle but track bar had slight twist due to slight angle foward on axle mounted bracket , Not a big deal but something worth mentioning ,,, but no more then running corrective c bushings but the angle change is in the other direction ,, most noticable when installing a stock trac bar and having to give a little twist to get bolt in upper mount,,,Now went back to rubber 0* bushings

 

[TheLimeRanger]

Where did you come up with 19°? And how does 2 get you back to 6.5?
My math says a 19° turn would give you 20.8 on one side. Adding 2 more (bushings installed correctly/normally) would give you 22.8. Doesn’t compute.
Even using them backwards to raise the pinion would still only get you back too 18.8.
Seems excessive
Or was there a typo in there somewhere? Missing a decimal point perhaps?

I fat fingered thst lol. I meant 10 not 19 lol

 

[DirtDonk]

So what is your goal? How many degrees caster, and how many degrees pinion angle?

Even 9 and 13 are really up there. If you’re having trouble with anything over three or four degrees, then there may be other issues at work.
Certainly between four and six should be sufficient for most, and 7 to 8 for a really large change.
But only if you have power steering!

Presumably, we’ve talked about your problem before and it all came down to caster. Got a link to other discussions about it?
Sounds like you’ve dealt with it and thought about it long and hard, but wondering why such an extreme change is on the table.

 

[Broncobowsher]

If you are turning the knuckles, you can use the caster bushings to correct driveline angles, namely that front pinion U-joint angle.
You can fake a 0° bushing by putting half the bushings in backwards. Put that fat part of all 4 bushings all up or all down. This will alter suspension height 1/8~1/4" depening on bushing and direction installed.

 

[TheLimeRanger]

I fat fingered thst lol. I meant 10 not

So what is your goal? How many degrees caster, and how many degrees pinion angle?

Even 9 and 13 are really up there. If you’re having trouble with anything over three or four degrees, then there may be other issues at work.
Certainly between four and six should be sufficient for most, and 7 to 8 for a really large change.
But only if you have power steering!

Presumably, we’ve talked about your problem before and it all came down to caster. Got a link to other discussions about it?
Sounds like you’ve dealt with it and thought about it long and hard, but wondering why such an extreme change is on the table.

so right now i have 1.6 ° on one side and 1.8° on the other side with 7 degree bushings. Assuming my math is correct, if i turn them back 10° from here and use 2° bushings i should be in the mid 6's. That might be a little much so maybe i'll tell them 9° and get 5.5° and 5.8° out of it.

 

[bax]

You posted you were not doing this work on the axle. This is a job I have done several times. I take the axle out from under the truck. I cut off the wedges after marking the outermost location of the wedges. I then take the inner C's off the axle. I then cut the track bar mount off. I clean the axle tubes and tape the wedges back on the axle. I reinstall the axle using 4 degree c bushings. You can use any bushing you want. I just use the 4 in case I need to change some angles, it gives me some adjustment. I then set the pinion angle, tighten the c's on the control arms when you get the pinion angle where you want it. Then I set the C's back on the axle tubes. I rotate then to - 7*. I take a cold chisel and mark the C in relation to the axle tube. I then tack weld the wedges in place. Take the axle back out. Clean up all the places that need to be welded. Weld it up and start your install. If you missed with your angle you can adjust with different c bushings and / or use some offset caster bushings to fine tune your new alignment. I don't know how someone can take an axle to a shop and have this done just by bringing the axle and some numbers and expect it to be correct. So the ability to adjust is key. Like I said I dont care what bushings you use. if you get it right it dont matter.

 

[Apogee]

When I did mine, I did a similar procedure to what bax described above, noting that you'll want to make sure everything is at ride height when setting all of the angles, just in case that wasn't obvious. Paying someone else to do it based on pure numbers should be possible (in theory), but having the rig it's going under to mock it up made it basically foolproof in my case. Additionally, setting the pinion angle is much easier with the housing under the truck, and one of the biggest advantages to doing a cut & turn, second only to the improved caster. FWIW, my caster angle cycles +/-6° from full droop to full stuff, so with 6° caster at ride height, it cycles to 0° at full droop and 12° at full stuff with CAGE long-arms.

 

[toddz69]

so right now i have 1.6 ° on one side and 1.8° on the other side with 7 degree bushings. Assuming my math is correct, if i turn them back 10° from here and use 2° bushings i should be in the mid 6's. That might be a little much so maybe i'll tell them 9° and get 5.5° and 5.8° out of it.

Sounds about right. Mine were done years ago at a local shop (I don't have the skills that @bax does to do it myself so I was at the mercy of the shop) and I think I specified that they turn them 10 degrees.

The only problem I had was that they messed up one side and didn't rotate it enough (off by 2 degrees). Thankfully I caught it pretty quickly in the re-assembly process and took it back. The guy didn't believe me at first but the angle finder didn't lie.

I ended up with 5-6 deg. caster with 2 deg bushings and I have a 1 deg angle (I think) between my pinion yoke and my front driveshaft at ride height, which I feel is pretty darn good.

Todd Z.

 

[DirtDonk]

Pretty darn perfect you mean!
I think a 1° offset is better than zero. Gives the bearings a chance to get lubed up and used, rather than just sit mostly static most of the time.
And while a 2° offset is probably too much, there is such a thing as "cross-caster" that can help in some situations. I don't remember which side is supposed to have more, but a fraction of a degree difference is possibly considered good?

If I remember your story too, the price they charged you was not bad at all. Even back when things were cheaper, something like $200-$300 was pretty good for a bit of labor.
Or is my memory faltering a bit?
Either way, some members here have had it done for very reasonable shop rates. And you're taking yours off and down to them LimeRanger. So that should help a lot.

Paul

 

[toddz69]

If I remember your story too, the price they charged you was not bad at all. Even back when things were cheaper, something like $200-$300 was pretty good for a bit of labor.
Or is my memory faltering a bit?

I thought it was expensive at the time (2008? maybe?) - about $400 as I recall.

Todd Z.

 

[turbotim2]

Who is doing the work?