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Mid 2020s what are we using for an ignition system these days with a carb??

gnpenning

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I have more questions than answers.
My only running carburated V8 (boat as well) has a hybrid ignition. Still has points for the trigger, but not the load of actually powering the coil. Condenser removed so just the points. That feeds the remote TFI module on a factory heat sink. That will throw a mighty spark out of the TFI matched E-core coil.

Great way to get electronic ignition levels of spark out of an engine that can't easily get away from breaker points. Also useful for things like outboards, motorcycles, etc.

This is my plan for a C60 grain truck with a 427 tall block. I wish the trans parts were this cheap and easy. Qjet to further eliminate the governor.

Spent some time at the bone yard a couple weeks ago looking for tfi module. Found the coil, to slow on the module. Correct grease should be here by the weekend.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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I have one of those iron bodied governor distributors, but for the std deck height SBC/BBC's. Interesting how it works. Would be easy to defeat it, but that still leaves the points. Plan was to convert it to an HEI pick-up assembly for an old project.

The first "Electronic Ignition" that I ever used on anything was a Stinger inductive pick-up system that I had for a short time on the Ranchero. It used a Mopar pick-up assembly with a sintered steel reluctor that pressed down over the breaker point cam. It was less than reliable, mostly due to the Molex connector for the pick-up coil. The connector chosen was not intended to be used where they used it and it both wore and corroded to the condition where the pick-up's signal didn't always make it thru.

The second such conversion worked more or less like Broncobowsher's points/TFI system works. It worked OK, not great, just OK. I suspect that the TFI works significantly better than it did. It passed too much power thru the points and they would pit anyway. It was a Delta Mark Ten B, I know this because I have the below picture of the housing. When that pic was taken it had been gutted and was now home the the Toyota Ignitor (module) used for their OEM electronic ignition.

i-vHhnkGH-XL.jpg


The hybrid Subaru reluctor / Toyota pick-up assembly installed in the Bosch 010 ACVW distributor:

i-xZMkSXq-M.jpg
 

DirtDonk

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Wow, a Mark-10 CDI! Those were advertised everywhere I looked back in the day. Heavy coverage in Popular Mechanics and Popular Science.
My first-first, before the Jacob's in my Bronco, was a "Compu-Spark" CD setup in my '66 Corvair that I bought out of the back of Popular Science. Used to make a funny hum/click "about to explode" noise when it was working.
Good memories.

Paul
 
OP
OP
joshua

joshua

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I almost ordered the Pertronix 1 Because you can use a stock coil. So if my coil died 1000 miles away from home, I could just walk into a parts store and grab one. But I wound up ordering the whole Pertronix distributor with the igniter 2 Because it seems to be highly regarded in reviews.

I do not have the og distributor or I would have used that with Pertronix igniter installed into the og distributor. The reason I wanted to use an og distributor, is Because I did read that some people had measured the cam gear on the distributor being out of spec, (They were to high) which could cause them to get chewed up.
 

DirtDonk

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You should be able to find that specification to compare your new distributor to, I would think.
In the old days at least, the shop manual showed that specification so you could be sure you were setting it up correctly and that all parts matched the factory.
 

76YETI

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Ok be nice I am a newb when it comes to ignition. My rig has a 1995 5.0 HO motor, running carb, 4r70W GM-Style HEI Dist. Recently had no spark, changed module, ran-drove 3 miles and it died again. I believe the wire harness inside the dist is crap and seems like it is falling apart. So, I was looking for suggestions. 1. Replace the "guts" inside the Dist, replace entire Dist with similar HEI unit or go to a smaller Ford Specific Ready to run Dist w/ Coil. I do run a WH Tach. The stock ignition was removed years ago by the PO when he swapped motors. Thanks.
 

ntsqd

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Most importantly, when you changed the module did you put down a thin, even layer of the thermal paste/grease that it should have come with it? If you didn't, then that's a problem.

Is the ignition running direct off the switch, or does it have a relay for power? GM uses a 12 gauge wire to supply HEI modules with power, they pull some current. Likely more than should be going through the stock IGN switch in a Bronco.

None of the '76's original ignition system is still there?

I've previously posted in this thread what I would build if starting from scratch.
 

76YETI

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Most importantly, when you changed the module did you put down a thin, even layer of the thermal paste/grease that it should have come with it? If you didn't, then that's a problem.

Is the ignition running direct off the switch, or does it have a relay for power? GM uses a 12 gauge wire to supply HEI modules with power, they pull some current. Likely more than should be going through the stock IGN switch in a Bronco.

None of the '76's original ignition system is still there?

I've previously posted in this thread what I would build if starting from scratch.
Did the thermal paste....Thanks for the reply. When I purchased the new module they had a clearance on a Chevy Pertronix HEI Distributor for $79. I bought it and was thinking of reselling it or giving it to my stepdad. Well, I gutted it and replaced basically everything but the stem. Started right up. I'm pretty sure the wiring harness & capacitor inside the distributor was bad as everything else tested out within range. Thanks again.
 

gnpenning

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I have more questions than answers.
Did the thermal paste....Thanks for the reply. When I purchased the new module they had a clearance on a Chevy Pertronix HEI Distributor for $79. I bought it and was thinking of reselling it or giving it to my stepdad. Well, I gutted it and replaced basically everything but the stem. Started right up. I'm pretty sure the wiring harness & capacitor inside the distributor was bad as everything else tested out within range. Thanks again.
Is the distributor drive gear the correct one for your camshaft?
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
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Capacitor in an HEI distributor? I'm not sure that I've ever seen that. Looked into it a little and found post #7 here quoting this from some unknown source:

"The capacitor in the base of an HEI distributor is there to suppress radio interference. It is not a condensor like a points-type distributor has. (Well, it is a condensor, because condensor is a very old word for capacitor, but not used for the same purpose.) The symptom of an open one should be increased radio noise, especially on AM stations, not ignition failure. It is wired in parallel with the pink wire going to the HEI module and goes to ground. An open in the capacitor would not affect the circuit between the ignition coil and the module. A shorted capacitor, however, probably would cause failure of the ignition, because there would be a no-resistance path to ground for the current coming from the module.

GM typically has this radio interference suppression capacitor in the distributor (and it looks a lot like a points-style condensor), and another similar capacitor on the tach lead, also for interference suppression. Looking at the schematic, whether or not a failed capacitor would cause the engine not to run would depend on its mode of failure. I hope this helps."
Which supports my initial guess that it was an electronic noise suppression capacitor much like the one located next to the original charge regulator and not something necessary to the function of the ignition itself.
 
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pcf_mark

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For what it is worth - MSD 6A was the earliest counterfeited item starting in the 90s. Chinese units starting showing up and Summit sold them by the zillions. I first figured it out when I had a car come in with inconsistent performance. As a test I went to swap my 20 year old MSD off the shelf. The "new" Summit unit had a slightly different bolt pattern. Turns it was slightly different because it was a counterfeit!

A real MSD unit wil last forever.

My favorite ignition I ran with my carburetor was Ford EDIS hardware with a MegaSquirt controller. Gives you infinitely flexible spark curve and adapts to load - climbing a hill, turn on a/c. I also have low advance when cranking so it cranks fast too. A lot more complexity but once it is running been great for 16 years (I have now converted to full EFI but still use EDIS)
 

ntsqd

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I've personally never had an MSD unit fail*, but I've been around several that did fail. A couple 6's, one a 6OR, and at least one 7 that we had on the dyno for those engines that needed such a box. This is experience going back into the early 90's, so not likely counterfeit units.

If you do use an MSD then do yourself a favor and cut off their proprietary inductive pick-up connectors and replace them with a weatherpack or a metri-pack or a deutsch, anything that is sealed. If you won't do that then at least wrap the whole connector from one wire to the other with 3M's 130C tape. If you don't do one of these two options then eventually the corrosion on those contacts will get to the point where the box won't work because no signal can reach it.

*I own two 6's, they're on a shelf somewhere as I don't use them and haven't for decades. I should probably throw them out the next time that I stumble across them. I'm not impressed with them, the Performance Distributors HEI module runs just a well and is a whole lot smaller, less expensive, and less picky about the surroundings. Wire an MSD to an inductive pick-up with reversed polarity and it usually runs very badly. Sometimes it won't run at all. Do that to an HEI module and it doesn't care. Use cheap suppression type spark plug cables around an MSD unit and it does odd things, sometimes randomly, sometimes consistently. Do that with a D-S II or HEI module and they don't care.
 

knack

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Still running points here. No issues at all. I drive only 1 or 2K miles per year - and have changed points once since 1995.
 

Jdgephar

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My '72 has a stock Duraspark distributor with the inductive pickup. I'm using the blue grommet Duraspark II module and an e-core 12V coil. Not sure that is recommended, but it's been working so far. As a backup or for my next project, I bought a GM 4 pin module and I'm going to mount that on a computer CPU heatsink, since I have a box full of old ones. I'll use the duraspark distributor and e-core 12v coil with that.
 

ntsqd

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From experience with exactly your set-up I think that its a great system. I first ran it with the ballast wire in place, and then I replaced it with regular wire and it worked well either way.

What worked out slick for me was to grab the external GM E-core coil and as much of it's wiring harness as I could get loose. I like the GM coils better, but only because of their 12VDC connectors. Otherwise I don't think either is superior to the other, they're both really good coils. Better than anything that I've used from the aftermarket.

With a D-S distributor I'd either try for a JY module to dist. harness or buy the Ford unique connector at the distributor. Marry the two harnesses as appropriate so that it's all plug and play, AND you can easily go backwards if you want or need to.
Just in case you're unaware, the signal wires from the distributor are a max of one volt DC, so make those splices with care.

And FWIW a simple piece of 1/4" thick by 2" aluminum angle stock slightly longer than the module itself was enough of a heat-sink that my module survived being near the slant 6 engine, but not on it's exhaust side. I can tell you that that piece of aluminum was NOT enough when I tried to use copper bearing anti-seize as the thermal paste when I couldn't find any of the actual thermal paste and I needed to get to work in the morning. It worked for several days until suddenly at the top of an off-ramp it didn't. No warning, just stopped running.
All of which is to say that I think that your plan for a heat-sink might be overkill, but also to say that had I had that option I'd have used it too!
 

Broncobowsher

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If you need heat sink grease, check with computer stores. Fry's was my go to before they folded. Microcenter is in several places. always online options as well. The gamers have all sorts of exotic thermal grease options to try and keep the processors heat flowing into the heat sinks.
 

73azbronco

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I haven't had actual problems with MSD products, I just haven't seen performance that lives up to the hype. Nothing an MSD actually does can't be done by a quality D-S II or HEI module.

Maybe if we were talking about alcohol or Nitro for fuel and lots of blower over-drive it would be different. Since we're not, they're not.
using ford duraspark dizzy, and MSD 6a for 15 years, still kicking, and I can buy an MSD summit or autozone 2 day shipping. Holy crapo they got pricey, get off my lawn!
 

ntsqd

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Which would really suck to wait for if you're in someplace like Carver's Junction, NV.
OTOH they could likely have an OEM module to you in less than a day from a parts house in either Tonopah or Austin. If the NAPA in Carver's was still in biz you likely could have had it in a few minutes.
 

DirtDonk

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Still running points here. No issues at all. I drive only 1 or 2K miles per year - and have changed points once since 1995.
Mine always worked great too, but I finally relented and went electronic.
But in your case, I hope you have spare parts from decades ago, in case you ever need to replace your existing setup. The new stuff is a crapshoot!
Especially the condensers. As often as not, they don't work right out of the box and with all new parts your spark won't spark.

Paul
 
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