Heat torture cooling system test... Exploder mech vrs Tauras electric fans...

[DirtDonk]

I think I remember that story! Right now he’s heading up the coast on his adventure bike working his way north first, then east eventually into Idaho and probably further east.
Riding solo at the moment but hooking up with others along the way.

 

[nvrstuk]

We used to stay in touch but ...

Is he going to Touratech for Adventure bikes in North Central Washington this week? Huge event going on. Our "somewhat adopted daughter " (long funny story) was there last weekend and is going back this coming weekend.

Ask Jerry if is going thru Central Wash. PM me with any info.

Thanks Paul, appreciated.

 

[hossbronco]

Yes, it definitely was. I did a write up on my C4 swap from the manual and lots of people used the information. It was definitely a great group and a lot of fun. I bought my Bronco in 1995 and was a member of the EBML before I bought it.

Back on topic, sorry, not meaning to hijack.

I really want to do the Explorer front dress swap since it seems to help so much with overheating. But, any thoughts on if upgrading to a larger Griffin radiator might solve my issues or if the lack of air movement under the hood is more likely the culprit? I have thought about adding a scoop and drilling holes on the side to try to get more air moving under the hood. Is there a better fan than the Ford 5 blade for a v belt system?

If you’re looking at a Griffin radiator you’re probably not far off from the cost of an Explorer serpentine conversion. The Taurus or Volvo fan is the cheap upgrade option if you don’t want to spend money; that and increasing the airflow under the hood. A Griffin may help some over the RD (Brian’s experience would suggest that it would), but I’d at least start with the Taurus or Volvo fan.

 

[nvrstuk]

Well, I couldn't cool my 351W with a RD custom made radiator after a stock Duff 4 core cooled it fine for 20 yrs. I was planning on a stroker in the future so I thought I had upgraded. wrong design...

I fixed the problem with a 1974 stock Granada brass radiator. Seriously!

It cooled my 418 stroker w/o an issue for 10 yrs.


I run a much larger core Griffin now for the 460 sb.


Easy helpful mods

- ditch the inner fenders or at least most of them

- ditch the 5 blade fan. The monster OE 7 (or 8 blade??) pulls more air than you can imagine compared to the 5 blade

- shroud fitment. Do the research (itshere on CB) for fitment.

- timing check and all the typical stuff

-make what you have more efficient before throwing hard earned dollars at it.

 

[ntsqd]

Something that the Ranchero taught me, the hard way, if the water pump isn't a quality unit and is more than a couple years old then replace it. I went thru a LOT trying to make it run cool when flat towing the avatar only to find out that the "lifetime warrantied" water pump was junk. I put a Stewart Components pump on it and then all of my mods to make it run cooler made it run too cool when not towing. In SoCA on the Coast during the "winter" (sic!) that we get I had to use a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator so that the heater would work!

 

[nvrstuk]

TS- Stewart was #1 in the top 3 recommended by all the top radiator companies across the IS that I talked tobyrs ago when doing this test highly.

I'm sure you remember us talking about how Stewart needed to make a reverse rotation pump for us Ford small block guys!!

Yeah- never happened & never will !

Good point again- replace the 2 yr old wtrpump.

My 2 yr old mtrcraft one died

 

[BroncoLee]

I plan to remove the inner Fenders, flush the cooling system, maybe install a hood scoop and vent the scoop. The timing should still be the same as it is a fuel injected engine and the timing every time I check is at 10 BTDC.

This cooling issue was the same when I had a different 351W in the Bronco. Not sure how much if any difference a new water pump would make.. Water pump is still the stock Ford Lightning pump.

Thanks for the tips guys!

 

[BroncoLee]

If you’re looking at a Griffin radiator you’re probably not far off from the cost of an Explorer serpentine conversion. The Taurus or Volvo fan is the cheap upgrade option if you don’t want to spend money; that and increasing the airflow under the hood. A Griffin may help some over the RD (Brian’s experience would suggest that it would), but I’d at least start with the Taurus or Volvo fan.

When you say Taurus fan are you suggesting removing the mechanical fan and replacing it with the Taurus unit or using the Taurus fan as a pusher?

 

[hossbronco]

When you say Taurus fan are you suggesting removing the mechanical fan and replacing it with the Taurus unit or using the Taurus fan as a pusher?

I’m suggesting that you try removing the mechanical fan and replacing it with the electric Taurus fan. I’m not sure if it beats out the Explorer fan, but it should be in the ballpark. Eventually nvrstuk will tell us which one is best.

 

[73azbronco]

Thought I would make a showing to prove Im still alive: My metal HD explorer fan sits about 1 inch into the metal WH shroud on top, and almost all the way in on the bottom, because the motor tilts up to the front. A lot of real complex testing would be needed to find the exact best number, but as an old Aero engineer, just enough in the shroud is just enough.

 

[BroncoLee]

Which years and models for the Volvo fan and Taurus fan work best?

 

[DirtDonk]

Back on topic, sorry, not meaning to hijack.

We need a good hijack now and then to remember where we came from and to re-focus on topic when it's called for.

I really want to do the Explorer front dress swap since it seems to help so much with overheating. But, any thoughts on if upgrading to a larger Griffin radiator might solve my issues or if the lack of air movement under the hood is more likely the culprit?

is there an in-depth discussion about it anywhere here? Or is it here in this discussion?
A larger radiator is not usually a cure for overheating in a Bronco. Sure, even if you don't have a capacity problem, that extra capacity "might" help, but it depends on what kind of power you're building and what you have now. If you're already rocking a radiator that can cool more than what you have, adding more is just masking the issue.
Do you have a tuning issue? Do you have an air flow issue? Do you have a coolant flow issue? Do we know?

Lack of the ability to evacuate the heated air effectively from under the hood of a Bronco is certainly a thing. But when is your overheating occurring, and is it actually overheating?
Sorry if we've already covered it, but I usually need my memory jogged these days. Gotta' get to the "oh yeah, that discussion" phase before anything starts to make sense again.

I have thought about adding a scoop and drilling holes on the side to try to get more air moving under the hood. Is there a better fan than the Ford 5 blade for a v belt system?

I think there are a couple. Which one do you have currently.
And there is one very easy and very cheap way to find out. And that is to drive it around with the hood removed and see what changes.
It's a bit of a hassle to remove it, and a bit more of a hassle to re-install it correctly. But it's a "for-sure" answer to the question. Until then you don't know and the other solutions you mention are more work and harder to reverse should they not help.
The forums are full of discussions about Broncos (especially with 351's under the hood) of throwing every known part in the book at the problem and having it never go away.
Seems to me that at the beginning of this thread here started out exactly like that. Didn't we discuss water pressure and radiator design and TUNING right up front?

Do you have a full discussion thread going on elsewhere about the issue(s) you're having so we can know what's already been gone over?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Next time you chat with Jerry ask about our ride out to the dunes after getting the 418 dialed in on his "Bronco".at the Sand Lake campground and how the park rangers thought we were trying to outrun them because we didn't have a flag on the back yet... Jerry did a lot of smooth talking to get out of that one!

Early SOB... #6 or so??

I wonder if that's the one our friend Tom Roslund was at, where he jacknifed his Bronco behind his Dodge shortbed truck on the way home?
And Jack Covert had his own adventure towing his Bronco behind a soon-to-be clapped out Suburban.

Right now (or earlier last night anyway) he was in Seaside, OR drinking beer with a chocolate dessert chaser after a "hard" day's ride through the beautiful contryside. Heading up to Aberdeen and Seattle tomorrow (today).
He has this problem with retirement. He thinks he needs to ride all over the western states to stay happy. Then again... It seems to be working!

 

[ntsqd]

I do and I was recently on the Stewart page and they now offer a couple pumps that look like they will work on the Exploder front dress.

I know that they work, I've seen them work, but I'm still leery of electric fans off-road. Call me old fashioned I guess. I'd rather have an OEM clutch fan off-road, even just off-pavement. What I wish that we'd seen developed for light duty vehicle use is an electronically controlled, mechanically driven fan. Imagine that fan clutch being much like the A/C compressor's clutch, with a PWM controller operating it.

Something that has always bothered me is the idea that venting the engine bay is needed. I can't make the fact that hot air has a lower "viscosity" and will flow more easily through the existing holes and gaps etc. align with the obvious results of folks who have vented the engine bay. Ever opened the hood of a late model? That's the most densely packed part of the vehicle. They don't seem to worry too much about airflow out of the engine bay.
Do pay attention to where you put that venting. If you vent into a high pressure zone, like say the base of the windshield, then you're doing more harm than good.
I'd give a serious look at the approach to the radiator. Any path where air can 'escape' and go around the radiator is wasted air. It doesn't need to be hermetically sealed, but it does need to insure that 99%+ of the air entering the grill goes someplace productive.

Looks like Jerry O. has joined the ADV crowd. There are some amazing ride reports over there.

 

[nvrstuk]

Water pump can make all the difference in the world.. Our stock Broncos run about 15 to 20PSI in the block this is not thermostat pressure this is block pressure. Nascar guys run 50,60, 70 pounds of block pressure all developed by the water pump that's how an engine stays cool.

In my write-up and review comparing the Tauras fan to the Exploder fan it explains that procedure.
Some people think it's bogus but not the top radiator shops in the US they all swear by it.

 

[hossbronco]

Which years and models for the Volvo fan and Taurus fan work best?

The Taurus fans are a very popular salvage yard mod for many different vehicles. They’re 2 speed fans that are known to push through a lot of air. The Volvo is supposedly the same fan, essentially. I can’t for sure confirm that, but there are many websites making that claim. The Volvo fan screws into the shroud, so it’s easier to fit into a custom shroud and looks a little better, IMO.

For the Taurus, I think it’s 1990-1995.

Here’s an article for the Volvo fan. As the article says, the fan is from the 1990s and don’t forget to snag the relay.
https://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/volvo_electric_fan.shtml

 

[hossbronco]

nvrstuk said he got better results with the Explorer fan, but the Taurus fan is still a good option if you don’t want to do the Explorer serpentine and you want to save money. It will also give you back a little hp as an added bonus.

 

[nvrstuk]

Tauras is a great option for sure.

My back to back 102 ambient deg temp comparison tests on the same Bronco on the exact same route, driven the next day was a great apples to apples comparison

 

[BroncoLee]

Thanks for all of the input guys! I will cut the inner fenders out first and see how that helps as well as double check my timing. I went back and reread your post nvrstuk and it looks like the Explorer setup cools better than the Taurus fan. Taurus or Volvo fan would definitely be cheaper for me. Does anyone have a comparison of the Volvo vs Taurus fan? Volvo fans with relays can be had for $150 or so and if they are easier to mount might be worth a try knowing I can resell it if it doesn't work out.. Thoughts?

 

[hossbronco]

It’s been a while since I looked at them, but I pulled a Volvo fan from a salvage yard, complete with relays for $40 a couple of years ago. I liked the Volvo fan because the shroud was more symmetrical, I believe, and I could easily remove it and make my own shroud if I wanted.

Supposedly they have the same motor, but the fan blades can be shaped differently. I think the curved blades work better than the straight ones (more rigidity, less noise).