Anyone having this FiTech Issue?

[ChrisC74]

Chris, Maybe you can give some input on the hot start problems. I have had several issues that FiTech had me re-flash to fix. Recently my FiTech started to not want to start when hot. I can drive it all over hell and gone with no issues (except the backfire on decel that Fitech says cant be fixed) until I turn it off. Then I have to crank for 2-3 minutes to get it to start again. IAC at idle is always 7 to 9 and it starts first crank when cold or has sat for 10-20 min. Im ready to yank this POS off and go back to a carb. Any thoughts?

Jim - do you have the their FCC tank / pump or are you using inline or in tank pump?

I will go back and check my notes - I am sure I saw several suggestions for no hot start. I am on the east coast so it will be tomorrow before I can get back.

It is funny you mentioned the back fire on decel. I am not sure who told you it cannot be fixed - that is one of the things I have been tuning out and I pretty much have it gone. There are plenty of things you can change to affect that. Do you have an auto or manual?

What really became clear quickly with this system is - for some it runs perfect right out of the box. For most you have to play with it a little to get it running well. It is not going to learn its way out of the problems on it's own.

I wish their tech support was more consistent.

In the mean time - here is a link that has a ton of good information.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/89-...ing-tips-info-sharing-ideas-settings-etc.html

 

[ChrisC74]

Chris, Maybe you can give some input on the hot start problems. I have had several issues that FiTech had me re-flash to fix. Recently my FiTech started to not want to start when hot. I can drive it all over hell and gone with no issues (except the backfire on decel that Fitech says cant be fixed) until I turn it off. Then I have to crank for 2-3 minutes to get it to start again. IAC at idle is always 7 to 9 and it starts first crank when cold or has sat for 10-20 min. Im ready to yank this POS off and go back to a carb. Any thoughts?

Jim - here are a couple of things I found these were other folks - not me or my system.

1. Hard Start After Being Warm (car took slightly longer to start) - Ken had me adjust the butterfly plates a little, so the car could get more air, since I have a mild cam. The car started perfectly after that adjustment.

2. He also had me adjust (add) the amount of fuel that goes into the engine during cranking. There are 3 settings (different temp levels) that I adjusted. After doing that, everything was working perfectly.

 

[DirtDonk]

Just to clarify ... So the 400 one would need a Timing control like a MSD 6 box ... And the 600 you would not need a box ?

Just to clarify a couple of points Tiko.
You only need an external ignition module if one is normally required for your particular ignition system. Not all do, so that little detail might be pertinent to some.
You can even keep it in use with either FiTech system. It's just that the 600 allows you to get rid of the box and let the EFI computer do all the work.

Most of the boxes normally in use on a Bronco do not control the timing. They simply take the trigger signal and tell the coil to spark. Not when.
The 600's computer can change timing to suit the conditions and the 400's can't.

Even with the 600, if you choose not to use the FiTech to control timing you would still need any ignition module/box that is normally needed.
Only if you connect the distributor to the FiTech unit and are using it to control the ignition can you do away with the external box. The FiTech's computer takes over the duties of the box, and adds the benefit of adjusting timing on the fly.

With the 400, you still set the timing manually like you always have by twisting the distributor and tweaking the advance curves to suit your engine. The ignition will always be completely separate from the fuel injection.

Sorry if you already knew that, but I was taking your use of the word "timing" with regard to the modules and wanting to add a little spin to it to confuse things!

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

And by the way...
Are all of you with the FiTech setups adding the little ground wire jumper between the throttle body bolts and the engine and/or body?
Because the sensors and computer are mounted to the TBI itself, this seems like good advice that I think they gave awhile back.

Good grounds are a good thing with any EFI setup anyway, but with some important little items potentially isolated because they're mounted to the throttle body and can have insulating gaskets and such between them and the rest of the electrical system, I would think it makes even more sense.

I'm guessing that the coating on the black ones is anodizing? If so then I think it's conductive so it "shouldn't" matter whether you use a jumper wire as a ground or not. But in spite of that, doing so seems to have improved the way a few of the earlier installs worked out. So it still seems like a good practice to me.

Paul

 

[ChrisC74]

Chris, Maybe you can give some input on the hot start problems. I have had several issues that FiTech had me re-flash to fix. Recently my FiTech started to not want to start when hot. I can drive it all over hell and gone with no issues (except the backfire on decel that Fitech says cant be fixed) until I turn it off. Then I have to crank for 2-3 minutes to get it to start again. IAC at idle is always 7 to 9 and it starts first crank when cold or has sat for 10-20 min. Im ready to yank this POS off and go back to a carb. Any thoughts?

Jim - here is some more info - maybe try the suggestions on crank fuel adjustments and let us know if that helps, hurts or does nothing?

IAC Steps:

Turn the driver’s side throttle adjustment screw IN (clockwise) half a turn to start with, with that done turn the key on and go to dashboard and find TPS and make sure it reads zero. If not, then shut the key off and wait for the numbers to go black then turn the key on again. Once that reads zero start the vehicle and find IAC Steps on dashboard. This number needs to be within 3-10 at warm idle. If the number reads zero then slowly turn the screw OUT (counter clockwise) until the IAC steps reads between 3-10. If the number is above 10 then shut the vehicle off and turn the screw IN as stated above and repeat the process until the IAC steps are between 3-10.

Cranking fuel adjustments:

With the key on go to the Go EFI Tuning menu, find Crank and Warm up. There you will see three cranking fuel selections. For cold starts add or subtract fuel from Crank fuel 65f, for hot starts add or subtract fuel from crank fuel 170f. Changing these settings should help with your start up issues along with setting the IAC. A good starting point is to change the settings in intervals of 10 to find which way you need to adjust the system to work better.

Accel pump/ Fast Accel adjustment:

If the system is having a hesitation or bogging issue, and you IAC steps are between 3-10 at warm idle, then your next step would be to adjust the accel pump function to increase or decrease the fuel added on acceleration. To start with turn the key to the on position and then find Go EFI Tuning on the main menu and press enter. Then find Accel pump and press enter. You will see a menu with multiple different settings, you need to focus on the Accel pumps (20f, 65f, 170f) and Fast Accel (20f, 65f, 170f). These setting adjust how much fuel, at varying temperatures, the system injects when you accelerate. Accel pump is used for any normal throttle input, Fast Accel is for any fast throttle inputs or Wide Open Throttle.

Hesitation: If the vehicle has a hesitation (when you step on the throttle and the engine does hangs and/ or almost dies and then suddenly take off) this normally is a lack of fuel so you would fix this by increasing the Accel Pump (for normal throttle input hesitations) or Fast Accel (for fast throttle or WOT inputs). You would make changes starting in increments of 10, to the temp range that you are finding the issue to reside in.

Bogging/engine loads up/slow to respond: If the vehicle is bogging (when you step on the throttle and the engine is slower/sluggish to come up to a higher rpm) this is normally caused by over fueling. To fix this you would need to reduce the amount of fuel it is injecting as an accel pump shot. To do this this decrease the Accel Pump (for normal throttle input hesitations) or Fast Accel (for fast throttle or WOT inputs). You would make changes starting in increments of 10, to the temp range that you are finding the issue to reside in.

Choosing a cam selection:

Cam selection is based on vacuum load of the engine. Cam 1 is for 15Hg or above, Cam 2 is for 10Hg to 15hg, Cam 3 is 8Hg to 10Hg, Cam 4 is 8Hg to 6Hg. These are estimates and you may need to switch between them if the vacuum load is between two different cam settings to get the engine to run better for your application.

Idle Return:

If the engine is not returning to idle quick enough for your liking or is dropping too quickly and killing the engine then you may need to adjust the rate at which the injection system comes to an idle. To do so you need to go to Go EFI Tuning, then find and select Idle Control. Once in this menu you will see several settings, the only one we are going to work with is Decel open IAC. This number should be at zero as a base setting, by going negative you are reducing the amount of time it takes to return to Idle, and by going positive you are increasing the time it takes. Normal procedure of adjustment is to add or subtract 10 to start with and then adjust it to your liking or what the engine needs. Then once the setting is input save it to the ecu by pushing the joystick IN, the handheld will show Send To ECU Successful. Once this is done make sure to go back to the dashboard and turn the key off until the numbers clear out on the value side. This shows that the system has saved.

 

[NYLES]

Im just gonna print that!

 

[bteutsch]

Im just gonna print that!

Thanks for the info!! FITECH should have some of these procedures posted on their site. Would probably help with their tech support work load.


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[ChrisC74]

Thanks for the info!! FITECH should have some of these procedures posted on their site. Would probably help with their tech support work load.


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I agree - a little better manual, and better trouble shooting guide, etc. Maybe even some how to videos instead of just simple marketing videos where everything magically gets installed and works in 20 minutes or less.

I understand that they do not want to teach us all how to program but just helping with the top five or ten top problems would be a start.

I think this thread is a good start.

 

[JWMcCrary]

All the new TBI systems are the same way, it's so they can take advantage of the market on folks that want plug and play for a carburetor. It will work with just install and answering a few questions, but to get the most performance out of the system you have to learn how to tune or hire someone to do it.

 

[NYLES]

Summit #SUM-250111 approved by Bryce as inline pump has pretty much same flow and 90 psi pressure as theirs.....personally looks like theirs painted black with Summit on it. So I have a pump in route time to get started.

 

[jimschulz]

ChrisC74, Thanks for the input. The rear butterfly adjusting screw wasnt even touching the cam.....Hmmmm But, I did crack it a little and it did make it alot easier to start! Still have a bunch of fine tuning to play with, but that was driving me nuts! Thanks Again!

 

[work765]

Anyone know where the 400hp is in stock? I can't find it. My carb is acting like shit and it's time to pull the trigger on the fitech.


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[DirtDonk]

You might call us in the morning work765, to see if we have any. I'm not in the office or I'd check the computer or shelf to see.
(209)943-0991 or (209)400-7200 should get you there.

I know we have quite a few (or did) of the 600's, and thought I saw at least a couple of the 400's last time I looked (over a week ago now) but you'd just have to call to verify.

Thanks

Paul

 

[ChrisC74]

All the new TBI systems are the same way, it's so they can take advantage of the market on folks that want plug and play for a carburetor. It will work with just install and answering a few questions, but to get the most performance out of the system you have to learn how to tune or hire someone to do it.

I agree 100% but I do think with these menu driven systems we should be able to tweak them to get close ourselves. Especially with a lot of us running similar engines, ignition, etc. If those guys who are racing their muscle cars with huge, cams, crazy HP#s can work together to improve drive ability we should be able to also.

 

[mlogan24]

Anybody else starting to think these FITech units are more trouble than they're worth?

 

[ChrisC74]

ChrisC74, Thanks for the input. The rear butterfly adjusting screw wasnt even touching the cam.....Hmmmm But, I did crack it a little and it did make it alot easier to start! Still have a bunch of fine tuning to play with, but that was driving me nuts! Thanks Again!

Jim - that is great. I would like more details sometime when you get a chance about the backfire on decel and what they told you about why it could not be tuned out. My initial problem right after I got the system was i would go in and make sweeping changes and got very frustrated.

The past two weeks I have backed off, made single small adjustments and then driven it for a bit.

I am at the point where I can drive it and be happy, it starts up hot or cold and it pulls really well for a stock explorer engine. I need to go back and redo the timing stuff b/c I am not sure I am correct on the initial setup. I did not understand about matching the setting on the screen to the timing light at 2000 rpms and then putting in an offset at 4000.

 

[.94 OR]

I need to go back and redo the timing stuff b/c I am not sure I am correct on the initial setup. I did not understand about matching the setting on the screen to the timing light at 2000 rpms and then putting in an offset at 4000.

Are you running a 600 unit with timing control?

I have the 400 Hp on mine.

 

[ChrisC74]

Are you running a 600 unit with timing control?

I have the 400 Hp on mine.

Yes - I got the Go EFI-4 600 HP Power Adder. It was all they had available when I bought it about a year ago. I only added the MSD and timing control about 4 months ago but did not get a chance to play much b/c of some work and health things. Moving forward again now the last couple of weeks and having fun with it.

Honestly - I don't see a whole lot of difference yet with the added timing control. I had a DUI distributor which I liked a lot and worked really well but since I was putting on a new hood and did not want to cut the brace again to fit the DUI I went ahead and made the change to the MSD.

 

[jimschulz]

Chris, My experience with FiTech's tech supports knowledge when it comes to phasing a distrubutor rotor is dismal at best. I have the large MSD dizzy and rotor so there are no index marks on the rotor like the small one has. What I found worked best for me was to set the crank to my initial timing, my case I settled on 12 degrees. Lined up the reluctor/pickup, marked where # 1 was on the dizzy housing, and locked the dizzy down. Then I rotated the crank to 3 degrees after TDC, which phases me 15 degrees, and pointed the rotor to my mark on the housing and locked it down. Now when the reluctor passes the pickup, it has approx 15 degrees to get ready to fire. With the engine warm, run at 2000 RPM and with a timing light, check that the crank timing matches the handheld timing. This has worked really well for me as it has reduced the backfires on decel, although it hasnt eliminated them. I have set the dcfo enable temp to 250 degrees, but it still wants to jump AFR to 20 when I first start to decel, it does recover, but as long as I feather the decel I can almost eliminate the backfire.

 

[ChrisC74]

Chris, My experience with FiTech's tech supports knowledge when it comes to phasing a distrubutor rotor is dismal at best. I have the large MSD dizzy and rotor so there are no index marks on the rotor like the small one has. What I found worked best for me was to set the crank to my initial timing, my case I settled on 12 degrees. Lined up the reluctor/pickup, marked where # 1 was on the dizzy housing, and locked the dizzy down. Then I rotated the crank to 3 degrees after TDC, which phases me 15 degrees, and pointed the rotor to my mark on the housing and locked it down. Now when the reluctor passes the pickup, it has approx 15 degrees to get ready to fire. With the engine warm, run at 2000 RPM and with a timing light, check that the crank timing matches the handheld timing. This has worked really well for me as it has reduced the backfires on decel, although it hasnt eliminated them. I have set the dcfo enable temp to 250 degrees, but it still wants to jump AFR to 20 when I first start to decel, it does recover, but as long as I feather the decel I can almost eliminate the backfire.

Thanks Jim - I appreciate the info on the timing. It will probably be the weekend before I can do that.

On the decel - here is something they told me. I guess the going lean on decel is a gas savings measure. I told them gas savings and driving a 40+ year old brick did not really go together. Maybe give it a try? Unless this is already what you did above?

You can play with the “DFCO Cut Fuel Map” to try and limit the amount of time you are in decel. You could also put the map setting out of range which will eliminate decel fuel cut. This setting is under Go EFI Pro Tuning and then Rev Limit Decel Cut