best general and efi harnesses

[DirtDonk]

You don’t want, or need to change gas caps in this case. If a bronco was already set up with the charcoal canister system then it has the correct one way vented cap.
You never want to add a two-way vented cap because instead of getting rid of fumes it will just go back to the old way of adding fumes to the atmosphere.

 

[DirtDonk]

so i guess first question since apparently my motor does fall into that other category. as said b4 i am at 393 cubes. lightning intake with 70mm MA and TB(i think). dark blue or purple injectors which i think are 36#. aluminum heads and a pretty healthy cam(not huge). so do i still use my c3w1 computer? are yall saying it can be changed? or am i better off going with something else to begin with?

Not sure how tunable that one is, so will let others answer if there is a better factory computer or not.
But there are aftermarket offerings as well. The Holley "Terminator" stand-alone computer is one, the Stinger Performance "Pimp-X" is another. With the Stinger computer literally being a Ford computer enclosure with correct connector for the EFI harness we've been discussing, but with a custom tunable computer inside. Very tunable in fact, assuming you want to learn how to do it!
If you go with a different computer such as something from Holley and probably others by now though, you'll want to use the harness they design for it. Where the Stinger Performance computer is a snap to connect to an existing Ford harness.

I have not checked prices lately, but before Covid it was about $900 or so. Almost hate to look to see what has happened now!

i still have my in cab vent tank and it is plumbed up correctly. it seems if i used the stock system and plumbed it into air box it would still be just venting to the atmoshere since that would be b4 the filter so i need to somehow plumb it into hose?

What kind of an air box are you contemplating? If it's enclosed and the air intake is not pointing straight up, there's no reason for the fumes that do collect inside it to escape into the garage. That's how many factory setups did it.
And also why in smog-inspection states you can't have an open element air cleaner, or even holes drilled into the stock housing. Many used to do that (my own '71 was that way when I bought it) theoretically to improve breathing. But it also potentially allows fumes out more easily as well.

We're not talking about a large volume of gas either by the way. Mainly after filling the tank, or when the temperature of the tank climbs from cool to hot and things need to expand. Here again though, it's at least mostly encapsulated (wrong word I think) in the charcoal medium and then it's all sucked out when the engine is running.
With a MAF sensor you theoretically need to put the outlet into the air stream ahead of the sensor. I'm going to put mine into the plastic base of the cone shaped air filter because it's right in front of the MAF.
It's probably not a major problem with a simple vented system to mount the inlet behind the MAF in the inlet tubing, but I think it would be better in front of, rather than behind the sensor. Maybe others can weigh in on that aspect.
Would love to hear another discussion about that in face.

or just get this can p thing figured out and go that route. so i guess by what yall are saying you can add or remove wires on the main plug on the computer ?

And make sure the computer has not had that aspect tuned out if you have the computer tuned first. Just be sure to let the tuner know which way you're leaning.

so am i understanding yall right when you say all the o2 sensor wires i need are already included in the harness?

Correct.
Two sensors only though, rather than the four or more that come in some systems. Usually not a problem with any compatibility with the ECM though. Not that I've ever seen discussed here at least.

right now my tb is pointing toward the passenger side, im just trying to verify the harness is or is not set up for that.

Yes

i think my alternator is a 3g but i dont see it written anywhere. how can i confirm that?

Show us a picture.

and as for brackets i have 1990 f250 brackets on it now. i havent dropped it in yeat so i dont know if ill have issues there or not. but it is on the passenger side. are explorer alternators on the passenger side too? i just thoought i needed to make sure the harness will reach everything ok

I hope you have room between the radiator and engine for that setup. Is the alternator a standard mount, or is it a "side mount" type like you'd see on an Explorer?
More pics please.

and the last thing is nobody answered me about the glovebox. i shifted my glove box location over about 6 inches. its pretty tight against the heater controls. how far does the fb protrude outside the glove box? and do yall think that will cause some length issues with my harness? and also where is the hole for the harness to go through the firewall at?

I'll post up some pics when I can find them, but basically the harness is long enough to mount the ECM all the way over by the normal glovebox location. Though the angled portion of the firewall is easier and cleaner looking. More and more are locating the ECM straight over the heater controls. So yours might be too close.
We're getting into unkown territory here, so the only person that can answer that for sure is someone that's done exactly what you have done. We need pics of this modification I would say.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

Not sure how tunable that one is, so will let others answer if there is a better factory computer or not.
But there are aftermarket offerings as well. The Holley "Terminator" stand-alone computer is one, the Stinger Performance "Pimp-X" is another. With the Stinger computer literally being a Ford computer enclosure with correct connector for the EFI harness we've been discussing, but with a custom tunable computer inside. Very tunable in fact, assuming you want to learn how to do it!
If you go with a different computer such as something from Holley and probably others by now though, you'll want to use the harness they design for it. Where the Stinger Performance computer is a snap to connect to an existing Ford harness.

I have not checked prices lately, but before Covid it was about $900 or so. Almost hate to look to see what has happened now!


What kind of an air box are you contemplating? If it's enclosed and the air intake is not pointing straight up, there's no reason for the fumes that do collect inside it to escape into the garage. That's how many factory setups did it.
And also why in smog-inspection states you can't have an open element air cleaner, or even holes drilled into the stock housing. Many used to do that (my own '71 was that way when I bought it) theoretically to improve breathing. But it also potentially allows fumes out more easily as well.

We're not talking about a large volume of gas either by the way. Mainly after filling the tank, or when the temperature of the tank climbs from cool to hot and things need to expand. Here again though, it's at least mostly encapsulated (wrong word I think) in the charcoal medium and then it's all sucked out when the engine is running.
With a MAF sensor you theoretically need to put the outlet into the air stream ahead of the sensor. I'm going to put mine into the plastic base of the cone shaped air filter because it's right in front of the MAF.
It's probably not a major problem with a simple vented system to mount the inlet behind the MAF in the inlet tubing, but I think it would be better in front of, rather than behind the sensor. Maybe others can weigh in on that aspect.
Would love to hear another discussion about that in face.


And make sure the computer has not had that aspect tuned out if you have the computer tuned first. Just be sure to let the tuner know which way you're leaning.


Correct.
Two sensors only though, rather than the four or more that come in some systems. Usually not a problem with any compatibility with the ECM though. Not that I've ever seen discussed here at least.


Yes


Show us a picture.


I hope you have room between the radiator and engine for that setup. Is the alternator a standard mount, or is it a "side mount" type like you'd see on an Explorer?
More pics please.


I'll post up some pics when I can find them, but basically the harness is long enough to mount the ECM all the way over by the normal glovebox location. Though the angled portion of the firewall is easier and cleaner looking. More and more are locating the ECM straight over the heater controls. So yours might be too close.
We're getting into unkown territory here, so the only person that can answer that for sure is someone that's done exactly what you have done. We need pics of this modification I would say.

Paul

As far as the glovebox question I was referring more to the painless chassis harness rather than the efi harness.

 

[DirtDonk]

Ah yes. I see what you’re saying now.
I don’t really have an answer to that.
The bundle of wires coming off of that fuse panel may become an issue, as may the panel itself be since it’s probably what, a full inch deeper than the glove box liner itself?
You may have to modify it. Space in the fuse panel further into the glove box rather than letting it sit proud on the outside.

The good news about the Painless product is that it uses TXL wires which are the smallest outer diameter of all of them. And the harness is bundled loosely but not wrapped.
For a given wire gauge the TXL is smaller than a GXL or the other one from a given amp carrying standpoint.
It will give you more flexibility and compactness.

 

[4x4man514]

Thanks! Thats what I've been trying to figure out. So about an inch outside the liner huh?

I don't mind losing an inch or 2 of glove box space of glove box space I just don't know how it mounts and how hard would it be to fab something quality up.

And as far as length do you think the 6 inch shift over will cause something to be short somewhere?

 

[DirtDonk]

Definitely not at any of the other ends of circuits. There is far away a lot of extra wire on most of them. It would be a true oddity if you came up short on something.

 

[DirtDonk]

Let someone who’s done one recently tell us how much exactly.
Or maybe this is a good excuse to get Eric back for another discussion. Give him a break from the day to day drudgery of designing new wiring harnesses, hardware and other electrical widgets at Painless.

 

[bronco italiano]

I mounted my ECM and Painless fuse panel with strong magnets from K&J magnetics, as I have no glove box.

 

[DirtDonk]

Got pics? Or a link to another discussion you've shown them in?

Thanks

Paul

 

[eric0o1]

Moving your glove box 6" closer to center wont effect anything other that the extra wire you'll now have between the middle of the dash harness and the fuse block.

 

[DirtDonk]

And availability of space for things like larger radio heads and location of the ECM.
Or not...

So 4x4man, are you going to be running the ECM under the dash completely, or via one of the Explorer/Escape firewall mounts that puts the main connector in the engine compartment?

Thanks for joining the conversation and adding the details Eric!

paul

 

[4x4man514]

I mounted my ECM and Painless fuse panel with strong magnets from K&J magnetics, as I have no glove box.

thats an intersting idea. which magnets did you go with?

 

[4x4man514]

Moving your glove box 6" closer to center wont effect anything other that the extra wire you'll now have between the middle of the dash harness and the fuse block.

thanks so no worries about the part of the harness that travels down the passenger side?

and can you tell me if this harness comes with the wiring for a 3g alternator? or does it need to be purchased separately?

thanks!

 

[4x4man514]

Ah yes. I see what you’re saying now.
I don’t really have an answer to that.
The bundle of wires coming off of that fuse panel may become an issue, as may the panel itself be since it’s probably what, a full inch deeper than the glove box liner itself?
You may have to modify it. Space in the fuse panel further into the glove box rather than letting it sit proud on the outside.

The good news about the Painless product is that it uses TXL wires which are the smallest outer diameter of all of them. And the harness is bundled loosely but not wrapped.
For a given wire gauge the TXL is smaller than a GXL or the other one from a given amp carrying standpoint.
It will give you more flexibility and compactness.

i looked at my bronco today and i may have 1.5 to 2 inches between the heater controls and the metal edge of the box . so i may be able to fit. might be time to pull the trigger.

 

[4x4man514]

i sent efi guy a pm but i still havent gotten a reply. im prolly gonna go with the ron francis bronco harness too but i want to make sure im gonna be able to make it all work with my modified motor'

 

[DirtDonk]

I think Efi Guy responds quicker lately through Facebook than here these days. That’s what other members have stated anyway. He’s extremely busy so either way, give him a little time to answer.

The Painless harness is designed to work with both standard and upgraded alternators. But there is a limit. After which you put together your own charge wire and fuse setup.
It's probably the most versatile in the alternator department, working literally like the stock setup with stock range alternators with external regulators, or higher output internally regulated alternators.

Eric can correct me if I'm wrong, but basically Included in the Painless harness are two charge wires. The standard Black w/yellow for use with the original ammeter in the dash and alternators of 65a output or less. (I've used 70a units, but the official limit is 65 per the instructions)
If you have something more in the area of a 75a to 120a alternator, you install the larger gauge Red wire directly to the starter relay/battery. This bypasses the ammeter, but the heavier and shorter run of wire can handle substantially more power.

If you go with a 130a 3G or even larger (or frankly, even the smaller 95a 3G) then you need to install your own uprated charge cable and circuit protection.
This can be made by you, or you can buy one already set up for this. Here is ours: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Battery_Charge_Cable_AMG_fused/Bronco_Starters with 6ga battery cable and a 175a Mega-Fuse and holder. Ford used 6 and even 4 gauge cables on later models with 3G and newer alternators.
Overkill here does not hurt performance, safety or function.

I can't imagine that there will be any shortage of wire in any corner just by moving your fuse panel over a few inches. However, I suppose it's not impossible.
I worked on a Bronco where they'd mounted the fuse panel to a panel in the center of the dash just above the trans tunnel. About 98% of the harness still fit, but I do remember having to work with a couple of very short wires for some accessory or another. But nothing critical that i remember, and i don't remember having to lengthen anything. And to top that off, the owner may have shortened them too soon and i just don't remember. Yeah, it was a project like that...
Maybe Eric can comment if he has time, on the passenger side front specifically. Like headlights.? They're the furthest forward, so might be the most effected.

Anyway, if you have trouble reaching something with the Painless kit, you are not likely to have more luck with any other harness. Whether a factory replacement or full universal aftermarket. If you have to increase the length of a wire, you have to increase it's length. It's either worry about that, or just build your own harness from scratch so that every wire is perfect for your particular vehicle setup.
The alternative is to move your fuse panel somewhere else. Not likely to happen in this case it sounds like, but it's an option. Instead of the glovebox liner you could attach it to the firewall or cowl or kick panel.
Speaking of which... We need to see pics of yours Bronco Italiano. Gotta' show all the options!

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

I think Efi Guy responds quicker lately through Facebook than here these days. That’s what other members have stated anyway. He’s extremely busy so either way, give him a little time to answer.

The Painless harness is designed to work with both standard and upgraded alternators. But there is a limit. After which you put together your own charge wire and fuse setup.
It's probably the most versatile in the alternator department, working literally like the stock setup with stock range alternators with external regulators, or higher output internally regulated alternators.

Eric can correct me if I'm wrong, but basically Included in the Painless harness are two charge wires. The standard Black w/yellow for use with the original ammeter in the dash and alternators of 65a output or less. (I've used 70a units, but the official limit is 65 per the instructions)
If you have something more in the area of a 75a to 120a alternator, you install the larger gauge Red wire directly to the starter relay/battery. This bypasses the ammeter, but the heavier and shorter run of wire can handle substantially more power.

If you go with a 130a 3G or even larger (or frankly, even the smaller 95a 3G) then you need to install your own uprated charge cable and circuit protection.
This can be made by you, or you can buy one already set up for this. Here is ours: https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Battery_Charge_Cable_AMG_fused/Bronco_Starters with 6ga battery cable and a 175a Mega-Fuse and holder. Ford used 6 and even 4 gauge cables on later models with 3G and newer alternators.
Overkill here does not hurt performance, safety or function.

I can't imagine that there will be any shortage of wire in any corner just by moving your fuse panel over a few inches. However, I suppose it's not impossible.
I worked on a Bronco where they'd mounted the fuse panel to a panel in the center of the dash just above the trans tunnel. About 98% of the harness still fit, but I do remember having to work with a couple of very short wires for some accessory or another. But nothing critical that i remember, and i don't remember having to lengthen anything. And to top that off, the owner may have shortened them too soon and i just don't remember. Yeah, it was a project like that...
Maybe Eric can comment if he has time, on the passenger side front specifically. Like headlights.? They're the furthest forward, so might be the most effected.

Anyway, if you have trouble reaching something with the Painless kit, you are not likely to have more luck with any other harness. Whether a factory replacement or full universal aftermarket. If you have to increase the length of a wire, you have to increase it's length. It's either worry about that, or just build your own harness from scratch so that every wire is perfect for your particular vehicle setup.
The alternative is to move your fuse panel somewhere else. Not likely to happen in this case it sounds like, but it's an option. Instead of the glovebox liner you could attach it to the firewall or cowl or kick panel.
Speaking of which... We need to see pics of yours Bronco Italiano. Gotta' show all the options!

Paul

thanks paul! ill try to reach out to him on facebook.

i read somehting on the instructions about reusing some of the switch terminals from my old harness. man i have looked high and low and i cant find that harness anywhere. do you know how much trouble ill have locating that stuff?

and i have been wanting to post some pics io just cant remember how. i think i got to pay to be a contributor right? where do i find that on the website?

thanks again!!!

 

[eric0o1]

thanks so no worries about the part of the harness that travels down the passenger side?

and can you tell me if this harness comes with the wiring for a 3g alternator? or does it need to be purchased separately?

thanks!

The kit comes with instructions on how to connect to a 3G but the connectors are not included. Like Paul mentioned, the Bronco kit now comes with 2 charge wire options in the kit. The larger is a 6ga wire capable of handling up to 150 amps and there is a 150 inline fuse provided.

 

[4x4man514]

So I'm confused now. What will I have to buy to hook up the 3g?

 

[eric0o1]

Painless part # 30831.

To make it even a little more confusing. The 30831 comes with a charge wire and an inline fuse as well. What I would suggest would be to use the inline fuse in the Painless chassis kit to fuse only the chassis harness. Then use the inline fuse provided with the 30831 kit to fuse the alternator.