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Considering BP 331 Stroker over ATK 351

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
Intentionally boring a performance small block .040 over? That is not a good plan.

I've owned both a 351 and a 330" stoker (only a .020 overbore), the 351 is a much better Bronco engine. Put the same aluminum heads on the 351 will make it run great.

Want a really strong affordable small block? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1w8OU_8-JM
Put it together yourself.

Have recommendations about the largest bore been changed? And whose making those recommendations?
I've always heard that .040" isn't a problem with a SBF. I haven't had or heard of any issues.
However, boring out past that isn't recommended.
 

sykanr0ng

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
5,363
Have recommendations about the largest bore been changed? And whose making those recommendations?
I've always heard that .040" isn't a problem with a SBF. I haven't had or heard of any issues.
However, boring out past that isn't recommended.

Recently I have seen larger over bores claimed to be a cause of overheating.
 

5001craig

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
1,180
I have a front sump pan. Mods to the pan are in my build thread.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,365
Historically, boring a 302 was not as finicky a proposition as the 351's were. The problem was casting shift left thinner cylinder walls, but the larger displacement engines created more of an issue with overheating.
But back then at least this was generally accepted to be the big issue at .060" for the most part. Hence the general recommendation to not exceed .040" on a 351W. There were some ways to combat the heat issues, but most were just band-aids if your block was one of the unlucky ones. And completely ineffective if you were REEAALLY unlucky.

But as someone mentioned, sonic checking the block before any boring (a good practice with any older V8 anyway, but very important on Windsors) and will tell the tale on whether an individual block can go to .060" happily, or can't go past .020" with any chance of living a good clean (and cool) life.

Even though the 302's were not near as prone to these issues, it would still be a great practice to sonic-check the walls. Any builder doing volume should probably be doing this automatically so they don't have to eat an engine. They're already selling them for a pretty reasonable price. No sense in losing money you don't have to with a quick check.
I would hope that ATK and Blueprint and any of the other popular builders would be doing this. I'm sure they'd say if they were and anybody asked.
Then again, if a company is using brand new blocks (has to be new to be called a "crate engine" anyway) then maybe the issue is no longer an issue anyway. Perhaps the new stuff is made more consistently, and may even have thicker walls or higher strength materials.

I would run an .040 or .060 302, but if I was going more than .020" with a Windsor I'd be paying to have it checked.
A typical shop charge for sonic-checking the last time I looked was between $60-$100 bucks or so. Pretty cheap insurance when it comes right down to it.

Paul

PS: just re-read the first post and found "sonic checking" right there in the list. I probably would not lose too much sleep over .040" then. Then again, I have not heard of many 302 failures due to over-boring. Those mentioning it here may have had more experience with that though.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,365
And speaking of losing a thrust bearing... Riding the clutch is a big deal with wear-n-tear on things like that too.

Paul
 

1963hotrod

New Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
99
Loc.
Oroville
351

I built a 408 stroker motor for my 69. You can get the rotating kit from Summit for 1k. It includes crank,rods,bearings and rings. I had a 70 351w which is the better casting along with the 69. I added trick flow 170cc aluminum heads and a cam with .500 lift. Should be great in an EB.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,223
An fyi on the 331 and 347; you get those numbers by using 30 over pistons. If you use 40 overr you actually end up with a as i recall a 333/349. Sorry i didnt mean to say 40 over is right out, but if you dont take the time to verify like noted in the atk shert, it could be an issue.
 
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Jamie Chriss

Jamie Chriss

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
577
Originally I was sold on the 351 mild build from ATK, then the aluminum head option popped up. I was drawn to the 331 due to the torque and low rpm. I am building this for me and will spend money on the right stuff. It looks like the Fitech is the EZ button, good bang for the buck but is that the best way to go. I like the Pro 3 but seems a bit pricey and high performance but looks nice.

I have my new frame coming the next two weeks so I need to make some decisions on my suspention and chassy.
 

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Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,681
I've had both a 3.25" stroker 330" motor and a 351W (long rod, stock stroke).
Both built about the same. Aftermarket heads, good breathing stuff. The 330" motor was in a Ranger, the 351 in the Bronco. Same chassis dyno, both put down the same 250 HP. The extra cubes allowed the torque to come in lower and made the engine way more fun to drive. The Ranger was a bit more boring and took longer to wind it out. Both engine ran good to 6000 RPM although I would let the Ranger stretch it out a bit further and limited it to 6600 RPM. I would take the 351 any time I got a chance.
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
.040 i do not feel is something to even think about. My 302, which I believe is a 75 casting, was .030 over when I got it and I put around 90k miles on it driving daily all over so cal. Then had it gone through in 2002. It has been .060 over since and driven over 70k miles. Has 10.5 to 1 compression with iron heads. Also 4.88 gears so it always over 3000rpm on the freeway. Never runs hot. Doesn't burn any oil and does not have excessive crankcase pressure. It also weighs about 5500 pounds so typically I'm a 1000 pounds heavy driving around. It also gets driven really hard when it's off road unlike most vehicles crawling.
 
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Jamie Chriss

Jamie Chriss

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
577
I know there is great knowledge on this sit, the 351 with aluminum heads, would that be a good fit, is the torque and power band ok? I have money to do this really right, I just don't want to spend studpid money. I want to save where I can.

The full build 351 with FiTech EFI is intrigueing, fully factory tested sounds nice after spending 6 months building a tub from zero.

Talking studpid money has anyone used the Edlebrock Pro 3 on their EB? I really like the idea!
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
Having both a 302 in my bronco and a 408(in the process of becoming a 460 small block) in my race truck, I would not go up to a 351 block without at least building it into a 393. A 347 and a 351w are essentially the same engine. Same bore and stroke and likely same heads, carb and even manifold yet one is a little wider. I would rather save weight, rotating resistance and room and have. 347 than a 351. Plus the 347 will fit a lot better under the hood. Personally I would build a dart block 4.125 bore 427 if funds are available and going to the taller deck height.
https://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-460ci-short-block.html
 
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Jamie Chriss

Jamie Chriss

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
577
347 With Fitech $7,200.00
Horsepower: 410
Torque: 415 lb/ft
Block: Seasoned OE Roller Block
Bore/Stroke: 4.040 x 3.400
Displacement: 347 C.I.D.
Crankshaft: Scat Nodular Iron 3.400" Stroke 1 Piece Externally Balanced 28oz
Connecting Rods: Scat 4340 Forged I Beam 5.400� With ARP 8740 Bolts
Pistons: Forged Flat Top W Four Valve Reliefs
Piston Rings: Moly Rings
Compression Ratio: 9.7:1 Compression
Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller
Camshaft Specifications: 220/224 @050 .512in/.512ex 112LSA
Camshaft Bearings: Installed & Clocked to OEM Position
Cylinder Heads: Dart Pro 1 aluminum 58cc/170cc 2.02/1.60
Freeze Plugs: Brass Installed & Sealed
Rocker Arms: Billet Aluminum 1.6 Full Roller
Oil Galley Plugs: Installed & Sealed
Oil Pan: OE 5qt. Front Sump
Weight:430
 

sanndmann3

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
1,793
Having both a 302 in my bronco and a 408(in the process of becoming a 460 small block) in my race truck, I would not go up to a 351 block without at least building it into a 393. A 347 and a 351w are essentially the same engine. Same bore and stroke and likely same heads, carb and even manifold yet one is a little wider. I would rather save weight, rotating resistance and room and have. 347 than a 351. Plus the 347 will fit a lot better under the hood. Personally I would build a dart block 4.125 bore 427 if funds are available and going to the taller deck height.
https://www.americanmuscle.com/frpp-460ci-short-block.html

that link makes my mouth water and my right foot twitch... ;D
 
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Jamie Chriss

Jamie Chriss

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
577
I contacted ATK to find out the RPM/Torque/Horse Power Curve, they have them posted for their larger motors.

I can use their base motor and build up my own with Edlebrock Street Heads and the Pro 3 Series EFI, will get pricey for sure.
 

bronkenn

Contributor
Bronco Guy
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
2,688
Loc.
Southeast Ohio
Jamie, with the work I have seen on here that you do, building a motor would be no problem for you. You can build any size motor you want and it is a very rewarding project. As was said to get a good instructional book and take your time to spec it out and you will have a motor that does what you want. Ken
 
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