Considering BP 331 Stroker over ATK 351

[PCDan]

Originally I was sold on the 351 mild build from ATK, then the aluminum head option popped up. I was drawn to the 331 due to the torque and low rpm. I am building this for me and will spend money on the right stuff. It looks like the Fitech is the EZ button, good bang for the buck but is that the best way to go. I like the Pro 3 but seems a bit pricey and high performance but looks nice.

I have my new frame coming the next two weeks so I need to make some decisions on my suspention and chassy.

We’re going with a Ford Mustang EFI and Edlebrock Performer RPM II intake on the BP 331.

Im sure a lot of guys in here can comment on Ford EFI (mustang or explorer) conversions over other brands. According to a builder near me who has done a lot of Broncos he prefers the Ford EFI as he says they are easy to tune and they just work.

 

[Jamie Chriss]

I like the idea of building my own but I just don't have the room to really tear down a motor.

I like the Ford EFI, it just seems like allot of old parts, wiring etc. I guess if I had a great machanic guiding me it would be different.

At what point do I put a Coyote in this thing? My plans are:

New Motor
New Serp
EFI
23 Gallon EFI Tank
Headers
Exhaust
New Manual Transmission
New or Rebuilt Transfer Case
Rebuild Front and Readends
ETC

 

[Timmy390]

Stripped down Ford EFI had only a few sensors and is not hard to understand once you see a wiring diagram. I went so far as to turn a 96 van SD harness into a 95 Stang MA harness.

Define old parts? The FiTech is old GM stuff just presented as new.

You can get any old Ford EFI sensor you need at the local store just as (I've been told) you can the FiTech.

The one big advantage I see with FiTech is the self learning. No tuning required where as if your like me, no one in the area does Ford tuning. Gary is great and he did my tune which ran great out of the box. Then I went and changed a few things (cam and heads) and now I need some data logging done and a tune from the data. Since Gary is 18-20 hours away, he doesn't have a cable to reach.....lol

As for the Coyote, my understanding is 20K for the engine swap.....It's your money.....

Tim

 

[BigB]

I think it's Rguest or something but there is a coyote thread going now and he gives the breakdown for the engine side of the swap with headers etc at 10K.

This seller states they can turn off the pats and have you set up with the ford ecu and not have to use the ford racing harness. I haven't fully checked into it to see what is what. Said it will save $800

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-2014-...069639&hash=item3afa7e6bf4:g:GH8AAOSwLhFaMVld

With the price of coyote pullouts coming down and with the 6R80 included,I don't think it's that much more expensive than a built 351w etc plus a 5 speed or a 4R70W(including cost for stand alone computer).

Yes gears etc plus a whole lot of things need to be changed or upgraded but most Bronco devotees do these upgrades anyway.

Case in point:

I picked up a low mile rebuilt 351w short block that had some nice upgrades for a great price. Gave it to my engine builder just to give it a quick look over. Ends up it was starved of oil at some point and there was some damage to the block which may or may not have affected it's life.

Ok I say...fix it as I don't want to take a chance...hmmm edelbrock heads aren't that much more than getting a stock set rebuilt...etc etc...you get the drift and I was at $5500. I already had headers which were able to be used and am running 37" tires with 4.88 gears and lockers.

Then I added fitech for another $11-1200.

It's a lot of fun but it sits behind a stock 3 speed manual, and you soon get tired of wheels stands.....well maybe not!

So if I add an overdrive trans of some sort to be at the same point as a coyote package, I don't think there will be much change either way. And if the coyote is geared right just like my 351w needs to be I think you get similar performance.

There will be guys who will tell you how cheap they can get an engine built etc or salvage yard finds....it all comes down to what is available in your neck of the woods. In the end it is your money and truck so do what you really want the first time.

I have a coyote in a 70 Torino that is a project plus another 2 projects before I can get to my other 69 Bronco. But when I get to it I am going with a coyote!

As always YMMV...Opinions are like........

 

[5001craig]

...Personally I would build a dart block 4.125 bore 427 if funds are available and going to the taller deck height.

That's what I would do if I did it over again.

 

[BluePrint]

Hello All,

I wanted to weight in as I see we were mentioned several times. We have alot of happy Bronco customers on the road. Our 50k mile, 30 month warranty is hard to beat, and since we Dyno test every single one of our engines, it helps you guys with some peace of mind. We offer everything from stock-ish 302's to special Bronco specific builds that we do for some of the nations top Bronco restoration shops.

Mild to wild, here it is.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/ford-crate-engines

happy to answer any questions,

Johnny @ BluePrint Engines

 

[airbur]

Start at paragraph 5 here... http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm...ct_id=104/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd104.htm


1970 w/427W Injected Stroker

 

[Jamie Chriss]

Good read, thanks for sharing the article!

 

[airbur]

Good read, thanks for sharing the article!

Welcome. That article was what pushed me up to the 351W based 427.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hello All,
I wanted to weight in as I see we were mentioned several times...

happy to answer any questions,

Johnny @ BluePrint Engines

Hey Johnny, welcome to classicbroncos.com!
Thanks for joining in the forum and the discussion.

Hopefully there will be many questions for you. I'm sure a lot of us would like to see where the torque really starts to pile on with some of your builds. I think we've seen dyno results posted here before, but more would always be welcome.
But since it sounds like you build some that are very lower-rpm capable by request, we probably don't have as much to worry about, as we tend to worry about, on that score.;D

Paul

 

[BluePrint]

Hey Johnny, welcome to classicbroncos.com!
Thanks for joining in the forum and the discussion.

Hopefully there will be many questions for you. I'm sure a lot of us would like to see where the torque really starts to pile on with some of your builds. I think we've seen dyno results posted here before, but more would always be welcome.
But since it sounds like you build some that are very lower-rpm capable by request, we probably don't have as much to worry about, as we tend to worry about, on that score.;D

Paul

Thanks Paul!

Yes we do have a ton of 306 engines that the Bronco community seems to eat up. Also plenty of 347's, 408's and even a brute of a 427 SBF. We do some pretty awesome stuff, and we have some pretty cool things coming for Bronco's specifically!!

I can dig up a dyno on any of our engines, just shoot us a PM or give me a call!

(Pulled these out of the secret vault of upcoming releases)

 

[DirtDonk]

Glamour shot!
Nice. Thanks

Paul

 

[Jamie Chriss]

At what stage do I consider a Coyote since I am basically replacing everything anyway and I am in the middle of a complete frame off build? I do think the standard Ford motor would be less complicated for me...

Blue Print 408 EFI $7000.00 /Motor Only $5230.00 Would use Eldelbrock Pro 3 or Ford EFI
HP & Torque: 425 HP / 455 FT LBS
Compression Ratio: 9.8:1
Aluminum Heads
Hydraulic Roller Cam
Cast Steel Crank
Hypereutectic Pistons
BLOCK:
Hand picked seasoned block
Square and parallel decked
Align honed main bearing bore
Cylinders honed on computer controlled machine to within .0002 straightness and roundness
Cylinders are sonic tested for thickness
2-Bolt Main
4.000" Bored .040" over
1-Piece Rear Main Seal
Mech fuel pump provision: Yes
ROTATING ASSEMBLY:
New Cast steel crankshaft
4.000" Stroke
Forged I-beam 6.000" connecting rods
Hypereutectic pistons
28oz External balance
CYLINDER HEADS:
BluePrint Aluminum Cylinder Heads -HP9008
60cc chamber
2.02" intake/1.60" exhaust valves
190cc intake/65cc exhaust runners
CAM SPECS:
Roller
.543 Intake / .554 Exhaust
218 Intake / 226 Exhaust duration
@ .050 - 112 degree lobe separation
IGNITION TIMING:
34 degrees total at 3500 RPM
ALSO INCLUDES:
Intake manifold
Distributor
FAST EZ-EFI injection system
Oil pan, timing cover and valve covers
Dyno tested and shipped with results

 

[Jamie Chriss]

ATK 408 EFI $8000.00/ $5570.00 base motor
• Horsepower: 430
• Torque: 500 lb/ft
• Block: Seasoned OE Roller Block
• Bore/Stroke: 4.040 x 4.000
• Displacement: 408 C.I.D.
• Crankshaft: Scat Nodular Iron 4.000" Stroke 1 Piece Internally Balanced
• Connecting Rods: Scat 4340 Forged I Beam 6.200" ARP 8740 Bolts
• Pistons: Forged Dish W Valve Reliefs
• Piston Rings: Moly Rings
• Compression Ratio: 10.0:1 Compression
• Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller
• Camshaft Specifications: 220/224 @050 .512in/.512ex 112LSA
• Camshaft Bearings: Installed & Clocked to OEM Position
• Cylinder Heads: Dart Pro 1 aluminum 58cc/170cc
• Freeze Plugs: Brass Installed & Sealed
• Rocker Arms: Billet Aluminum 1.6 Full Roller
• Oil Galley Plugs: Installed & Sealed
• Oil Pan: OE 5qt. Front Sump
Weight:430
Oil : 10W30
Oil Filter: Wix or K&N Recommended Per Your Application
Fuel Delivery : FITECH GO EFI 600HP TBI
Intake Manifold : Edelbrock Performer RPM Dual Plane #7181
Spark Plugs : Autolite #3923
Spark Plug Gap : .035
Harmonic Balancer/Damper : Professional Products Internally Balanced Weight Must Be Removed #80006
Flex Plate / Flywheel : Internally Balanced 164 Tooth
Timing : 34-36 Degrees Total
Water Pump : Standard Rotation Right Hand Inlet
Firing Order : 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8
Exhuast : 1 5/8 Headers
Fuel Pump : FITECH Inline Electric Fuel Pump Kit, Command Center or Custom Intank setup (FUEL SYSTEM NOT PROVIDED)
Fuel : 91+ Octane
Ignition : MSD Pro Billet #8354
Automatic Transmission Stall Converter : 2000-2500

 

[BluePrint]

Seems like ours is the better buy to me (of course I'm going to say that, I know, I know)
Our build would avtually have the holley sniper, and save you $1000, with only dyno-variable HP differences. Thanks for reminding me our website needs an update on that EFI system!

 

[tirewater]

If I were to only consider the two listings between ATK & Blueprint. I'd pick the ATK:

-Name brand cylinder head & intake manifold
-Internally balanced
-Forged pistons
-Nodular crankshaft
-More open about components used (i.e. Scat, etc...)
-Correct connecting rod length (Unless Jamie mistyped)

 

[Jamie Chriss]

Cut n Paste

 

[BluePrint]

In many instances, we manufacture/machine our own Heads, Cranks, Rods, because we feel we can improve on the existing offerings we have at our disposal. Its to increase quality, not necessarily reduce cost. Longevity and quality are our #1 goal. Our heads stack up against some in the best in the industry. Rod length above is correct, we use a 6.0. I'll gladly discuss any of the components used with any interested customers. I don't publish every nut and bolt used because builds change from time to time, and we don't have to overhaul the website listings with every change. No argument or anything against the above, just offering up some info for the masses.

 

[BigB]

At what stage do I consider a Coyote since I am basically replacing everything anyway and I am in the middle of a complete frame off build? I do think the standard Ford motor would be less complicated for me...

Are you just waiting to be talked into the Coyote? It sure seems it to me....it's like you're pining for a long lost lover!

If everything is going to be replaced etc I think the Coyote is worth doing. A way to help with your confusion is to simply write 2 different build sheets totalling the costs. 1 for the stroker and 1 for Coyote.

You could post them up so others can run their keen eyes over it to see if you have left anything out. A stroker is going to need built everything behind it as well as the Coyote.

The thing that always annoys me is how expensive it is to put a decent overdrive built trans behind a sbf.

As to the standard being easier that is possibly true but only because it's been done so many times.

The beauty of this forum is that there is a wealth of knowledge and everyone is happy to impart it to others so I'm sure with help you can get through it.

Plus I can see if and where you go wrong to help with my future build ;D

 

[Jamie Chriss]

Big B I agree about the community, I have been leaning hard on everyone. I have to say I have done things I would have never thought I would do. My Bronco was in poor shape, basic shit show. I was going to cut and paste it back together but with some encouragement I decided to take it back down to bolt one! I was only going backwards and finally when nothing would match up I scraped the entire body and started over.

That being said I have saved up enough money since my last Bronco to do everything right. I am fiscally challenged, growing up with no money I have been taught to think twice before spending money, so every buying decision is a process with me. This is a keeper with no big rush to finish so I have time to learn from others.

Big B you are right, I need to do some side by side comparisons. I like the newness of the Coyote, the dependability, the beauty, and the bitcheness of it, but I think down deep the motor might be too big for the the engine compartment. I think a nicely built 351 would sit in there nicely. The final fact that I want to tinker with it, don't think I would be doing that with the Coyote. I think $ for $ I will spend the same money for either build, since I am going with a high HP motor so I will need the supporting parts to be equally strong.

Blue Print Engines welcome to this great community!