electrical question for when starting.. im scratching my heard here..

[work765]

this is what happened.
specs first:76, with fittech, and stock 302,

it has been driving completely fine every day, until today(its my daily driver).
My son and I drive to go get dinner, and we eat and then return to the bronco, and when i put the key in, the starter just keeps cranking over and over, and it wont stop. I take the key out, and it still cranking, and I put the key back in and switch it around from off to on to off to on, and take it back out again and the starter is still chugging along. I then jump out and pull the ground and shut it down. It was turning over the whole time with or without the key being in.
Every time i went to connect the ground wire i would get sparks and the starter would start to kick over and the engine would crank. But never did it actually start up.. just crank and crank....

The only thing different i did today was put the key in earlier that day and turn it to the left to turn on the radio for a bit(i usually dont do this).. But i drove it after that, and then had the startup problem later on..... once and awhile i have problems getting the key in the ignition turning it to the left or right position.. mainly because it feels likes an old key..

So.. I have no idea what this is.. i assume its my key ignition switch internals.. and I just need to buy a new one of those... But is there a way to trouble shoot this before i buy it?

What would you guys do? I cant hook the battery up or the engine just cranks and cranks and I get sparks...

if it is internals in the key ignition switch.is there a way to free up those parts?.. wd40?

as always.. any help is appreciated!!

 

[Steve83]

Whack the starter relay with the plastic handle of a screwdriver, and it should release. Click this & read the caption to understand what's going on inside it:



This shows the newer design, which is significantly better:

 

[Wyflyer]

Probably the key switch. To get where you can trouble shoot it, take the starter cable off of the starter solenoid. Its the big cable going from the solenoid down to the starter.
After that, use a test light to check if that now empty post is energized or not. Key switch is probably worn out, but might save it with a good cleaning.
Others will chime in

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, either could be the problem, but I lean to the solenoid. Here is how to check it with a test light. Attach the ground clip on the light to the negative battery post. Remove the small wire from the solenoid, the one near the one that comes from the battery (if your Bronco has two). Now carefully hook the battery back up. If the starter cranks the solenoid is stuck and is no goo.d.This little wire should only be hot when the key is cranking the engine.Put the point of the test light into the terminal of the little wire you unhooked. Next have a helper turn the key to start. The wire should be hot only when the key is turned to start. If the little wire is always hot look at the ignition switch. Good luck

 

[charlie6976]

Check the 'trigger' wire at starter solenoid. It's the momentary wire from the starter switch. If it has continues (steady) power, then your starter switch is probable at fault. If no power to this wire and your starter is still being powered, then it would be the solenoid that is bad.

Note: First disconnect the cable on the starter solenoid that runs to the starter. (No need to have the starter cranking the engine over. Just check for power).

 

[work765]

Awesome! Thanks guys! It's a great feeling to wake up to solutions

I'll report back with the findings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtDonk]

The wire from the key is the Red w/blue wire. The small Brown wire can be disconnected too, and probably should be anyway.
A bad starter relay/solenoid will not usually keep the engine from starting, but it can mess with the ignition through that Brown wire, if it's somehow grounding out. But you'd likely see smoke somewhere if that happened!

If it still tries to crank with the two small wires disconnected, then hit it with something like Steve suggested. But if this "fixes" it, it's still time to replace the relay I would have to say.
If it does not immediately start cranking when you reconnect the battery, it's either the ignition switch or a short somewhere in that Red w/blue wire.

Paul

 

[work765]

The wire from the key is the Red w/blue wire. The small Brown wire can be disconnected too, and probably should be anyway.
A bad starter relay/solenoid will not usually keep the engine from starting, but it can mess with the ignition through that Brown wire, if it's somehow grounding out. But you'd likely see smoke somewhere if that happened!

If it still tries to crank with the two small wires disconnected, then hit it with something like Steve suggested. But if this "fixes" it, it's still time to replace the relay I would have to say.
If it does not immediately start cranking when you reconnect the battery, it's either the ignition switch or a short somewhere in that Red w/blue wire.

Paul

So I got impatient, as usual. And just decided to change out the starter solenoid with out testing anything. I assumed it was the solenoid, because I have a kill switch in place that the previous owner put on. And usually If this is activated. The car won't even turn over. So I assumed the problem was past that. But now that I just threw away money on a new starter solenoid, And the problem persists, I assume it's elsewhere!

Now to trouble shoot the ignition




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[work765]

Check the 'trigger' wire at starter solenoid. It's the momentary wire from the starter switch. If it has continues (steady) power, then your starter switch is probable at fault. If no power to this wire and your starter is still being powered, then it would be the solenoid that is bad.



Note: First disconnect the cable on the starter solenoid that runs to the starter. (No need to have the starter cranking the engine over. Just check for power).

What is the starter switch?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thegreatjustino]

What is the starter switch?

Ignition switch

 

[Skiddy]

What is the starter switch?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

he would be talking about the ignition switch

 

[work765]

So, how does one trouble shoot the ignition? Do I do some basic trouble shooting before I buy the new ignition internals? Also I need to buy the ignition, plus the locks for the door so they all match? What a pain!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, one easy way that doesn't involve twisting your neck around under the dash would be an initial test to see if you're getting power to that Red w/blue wire.
Usually requires a helper to turn the switch to START while you hold your volt-meter or test light probe to the connector.
It's a simple 90° push-on thingy so it's easy to pull off, stick the probe in and see if you get the juice.
But since your issue is that it's activating the starter as soon as you connect the battery, simply pulling that Red w/blue wire connector off of the relay and connecting the battery is a legit test that can be done without a helper.

If you pull it off and the problem goes away, then start working your way upstream to the key switch. Of course, you can't use the starter at all with this wire disconnected, but at least you'll know that's where the problem is making itself known. Not the component itself, but upstream between the connector and the ignition switch.

Since we didn't know it had a kill switch "custom" added by the PO, that might also be a great place to start tinkering.
Can you describe it's connections and routing?

Paul

 

[Steve83]

...I have a kill switch...

You need to put that, and ALL the truck's other details into your signature & profile, like DirtDonk's & several others participating in this thread.

When you connect the battery & the starter locks on, does the kill switch stop the starter? How exactly is the kill switch wired? Pics would help. Follow the instructions at this link:
http://www.supermotors.net/forums/thid-5972-how-do-i-post-pictures-sounds-and-or-videos

 

[work765]

Paul

I went and got a new ignition switch and key cylinder and the problem persists!



as far as wiring goes. It looks like the kill switch has one wire and it goes to my coil. and splices in there. I'm assuming the kill switch is grounded and when depressed it un-grounds the circuit making it so the coil wont function?? does this sound right?

The kill switch has two terminals, and only one has a wire. I wasn't sure if maybe a wire fell off that second post?(I looked but didn't see one in the mess of wires everywhere)

 

[work765]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtDonk]

Interesting setup. Why not just disconnect it from the coil?
It's what you should do when testing things anyway. Get rid of things that are not needed for starting and see what happens. Even more important when that particular component is there only to keep the engine from running in the first place.

So as I think we discussed earlier, disconnect any noise suppressors attached to the coil, any tachometer wires connected to the coil, and this kill switch thingy.
It probably had nothing to do with your original problem of the starter spinning out of control, but it's hard to say until you know exactly how it works. Likely works like you though, by grounding to the dash. But that's not a 100% guarantee either.

Paul

 

[ransil]

you need a voltmeter.
troubleguessing costs a shit load of money, unless you have spares laying around, troubleshoot is the prefered method.

 

[work765]

So I took off the one red and blue one, see diagram and pic of my solenoid. And hook up the battery ground and she is still turning over.

So, I really don't know what that means. Is there a loose wire that is grounded and it's completing the circuit?
I obviously know very little about electrical and where everything goes, etc..

Thanks for being patient guys. And thanks as always Paul!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtDonk]

Where do the three big cables attached to the starter relay go?
More specifically, where do the two large ones on the same stud go?

If everything else is connected properly, disconnecting your Red w/blue wire means that the starter relay/solenoid/thingy has failed and is giving full power to the starter. But that's only IF it's all connected properly. And yours has definitely been molested at some point in it's life.

Paul