Help! Starting issues.. IT'S ALIVE!!!!

[Nightstick]

No spark, wtf!

 

[Nightstick]

Red to + side of coil, black to neg side of coil. You may or may not need the ballast resistor depending on what you bought.

The instructions say what you're saying with or without the resistor, only diff is the red wire runs through it if you have one

 

[Nightstick]

I'm starting to think it may be a ground issue

 

[Explorer]

Read the whole thread again. Centech harness, no choke, limited knowlege, and now Pertronics, you need hands on help. Good luck.

 

[DirtDonk]

Red to + side of coil, black to neg side of coil. You may or may not need the ballast resistor depending on what you bought.

That's incorrect, but is also what the Pertronix instructions appear to say with the way they're drawn.
If a resistor is present, the coil continues to use the resistor for lower voltage.
The Ignitor however, always gets full voltage so has to go the the ignition side of the resistor.
When there is no resistor, the Ignitor can use the positive side of the coil for a convenient 12 volt source.

Paul.

 

[Explorer]

Not doubting you Paul. Have the plain old points replacement module on my son's Mustang with a stock coil and it works fine. However, if I went to their coil, I would need to supply the full 12v. Just the way I understand it. And I've been wrong before.

 

[fastcarkenny]

I had that pertronix unit, and it had fits if it didnt get 12 volts all the time... Pertronix units are one of those things that no 2 are alike it seems. I tried adjusting mine to the reccomended spacing from the adapter ring, and it didnt work.

I would go on the safe side and give it 12 volts all the time with ignition...

 

[Nightstick]

I'm stumped ?:?

With the key on I have power across the resistor, and from the coil to the dist. EVERY ignition component is brand new (cap, rotor, plugs, wires, resistor, regulator, coil, pertronix) dizzy is turning when cranking, ground from block to frame is good, I have gas.

I put the timing light on it again, and I get no spark at the wires. I looked at the other no start thread and it mentions a "module". Not applicable to me as it's not a duraspark setup. I did replace the regulator, and it's wired properly. However, there is one connector that has the "REG S, and IGN AUX" wires on it that is an open connector which if I'm reading the instructions correctly only applies to the duraspark.

First pic is of the wiring (which I'll clean up once I know everything works) second the connector I just mentioned.

 

[Skiddy]

are you getting spark to any of the other cylinders. never mind looks like you have checked the others. i am out of ideas?:? drag it up here and we can figure it out;D

 

[DirtDonk]

First off DO NOT try to test for spark by jumping from the end of a plug wire or the coil wire. If you do, you run the risk of frying your brand-new Ignitor. It's not a guarantee, and it's not universal. Plenty of us have tested for spark this way. But there are those (me included) that have also had to go buy a new one just because one spark too close to the distributor took out the module.

You can use a plug at the end of a wire laid as far away as you can from the distributor. Just don't lay it on the engine anywhere near the distributor.

Ok, now that I've got that off my chest, I'll go look at the pics to see what's to see.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Not doubting you Paul. Have the plain old points replacement module on my son's Mustang with a stock coil and it works fine.

No problem. I'm not doubting either, that they can sometimes work on less than 12 volts too, but from experience (and many conversations with different Pertronix personnel) they can be iffy when set up that way. They prefer the higher voltage, as fastcarkenny's experiences seem to bear out as well. Same for the gap, as mentioned. They tend to run more reliably then, and are supposed to be wired that way according to their instructions.
The gap sensitivity may be in relation to just how worn out the distributor shaft/bearings are, but that's just a guess.

However, if I went to their coil, I would need to supply the full 12v. Just the way I understand it. And I've been wrong before.

Pretty much. Unfortunately, here again they might mess you up by selling coils for both low and high input primary voltages. So you need to pick your part numbers carefully when ordering a coil.
You can buy a Flamethrower to work with a resistor, and another one to work without. And to add to that, they sell identical looking canister coils that are oil-filled (like normal) or fully epoxy-filled instead, for superior heat and vibration resistance.
Those last are intended mainly for racing and air-cooled engine applications (according to them), but in my mind, that makes them perfect for a Bronco and the ones I've used in the past when I had a choice. If they've got a downside, I'm not aware of it.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

What's the Green wire on the negative side of the coil? A tach? If so, remove it while you're testing. Wouldn't be the first time a shorted-out tach stopped progress.

Is the Purple-ish looking wire on the battery side of the resistor for the Pertronix Red wire? If so, that seems correct.

The White wire on the coil side of the resistor is from the starter relay's "I" terminal? If so, that's correct also, but try disconnecting that one too, in case it's shorting out somewhere inside the relay.

And what about the coil? It's new? If so, what part number? Do you know if it's one for use with a resistor or not?

That's it for now. Let you know if I think of anything else.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Did you verify that the gap inside the distributor is to spec or just below? About .030" correct?

And hopefully you're not testing for spark with that coil wire laying right next to the distributor.

Here is another test you can perform. When it's all verified to be adjusted to within specification, grab one of the longer plug wires with a spare plug on one end.
Insert the other end into the coil and lay the plug on the engine or body at least a foot and a half away from the distributor.
With the hold-down clamp loose and the key "ON", spin the distributor by hand back and forth so that one of the lobes on the reluctor cam (I think that's what it's called) passes back and forth in front of the magnetic pickup point.
Each time you pass by it, you should get a nice healthy spark out the plug end.
If not, go on to Plan-B.

What that is, I don't know yet...

Paul

 

[Explorer]

No problem. I'm not doubting either, that they can sometimes work on less than 12 volts too, but from experience (and many conversations with different Pertronix personnel) they can be iffy when set up that way. They prefer the higher voltage, as fastcarkenny's experiences seem to bear out as well. Same for the gap, as mentioned. They tend to run more reliably then, and are supposed to be wired that way according to their instructions.
The gap sensitivity may be in relation to just how worn out the distributor shaft/bearings are, but that's just a guess.




Pretty much. Unfortunately, here again they might mess you up by selling coils for both low and high input primary voltages. So you need to pick your part numbers carefully when ordering a coil.
You can buy a Flamethrower to work with a resistor, and another one to work without. And to add to that, they sell identical looking canister coils that are oil-filled (like normal) or fully epoxy-filled instead, for superior heat and vibration resistance.
Those last are intended mainly for racing and air-cooled engine applications (according to them), but in my mind, that makes them perfect for a Bronco and the ones I've used in the past when I had a choice. If they've got a downside, I'm not aware of it.

Paul

I ran Pertronics on my air cooled VW's, but no resistor wire on them. They didn't like for you to leave the key on though. It would burn them out. Hang in there Nightstick. They'll get it figured out for you. You'll know the ignition system by memory before it's over.

 

[fastcarkenny]

What about bypassing all of the switches and stuff and trying a bacic test set up. black pertronix to coil (-) red pertronix and coil (+) to battery (+). Install cap and rotor and jump the starter solinoid to crank it. it should start or at least have spark. If not, something is wrong with your coil or pertronix unit.

 

[Nightstick]

That's a lotta info Paul, I'll try answering one at a time cuz I'm on my phone... Green wire is tach, disconnected it, same issue. Pink wire is dist (I had to extend the red wire a little. Other end of coil + goes I term, yes. Coil is an accel 8140C brand new. Tested volts during crank and it spiked to about 16 then ran around 9. Air gap on pertronix is correct. Guy at parts store said it's used with an external resistor, but he couldn't tell me anything further

 

[Nightstick]

In the pic I had taken the cap and rotor off because that was my next parts changing idea to try and fix it... If I have power going into the cap, wtf ain't it comin out!

 

[fastcarkenny]

Another thought about that stupid pertronix unit is that when I mentioned that the "correct gap" didnt work for my unit... I had to push it over till it touched the adapter ring. It's not right, but it works. One of the many reasons I like the duraspark setup better.

 

[Nightstick]

Just did the test you mention above Paul, got spark

Dizzy is rotating, spark getting to it... Assuming the pertronix unit is good, is there something else inside the dizzy that could be the issue? The base plate (I don't know the proper name) was very rusty but I cleaned it with acetone as instructed. Besides that is there anything mechanically that can go wrong with it? It's original as far as I know and sat uncovered for who knows how long

 

[fastcarkenny]

If you're getting spark at the coil, that indicates that the pertronix unit is doing its job correctly. When you run the coil wire to the distributor, it should have spark to that point. As long as cap is clean, CLEAN, and the spring on the top of the rotor touches the center spot on the cap, it should then distribute that spark to the posts where the spark plug wires go. I dont think (at least for start and idle) there is anything int he distributor that can keep it from firing.

How do the rotor and cap look?