Looks like one of those famous converted ch#vy dists. I would try taking it to a parts store and comparing it to a stock dist. Could be the shaft is too long or the housing wasnt machined correctly. You really need to compare it side by side to see if there is any differances. I would also check the depth of the pump shaft hole maybe its not deep enough.
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How to get the distributer to seat?
- Thread starter Bronchole
- Start date
casadejohnson
Bronco Alchemist
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2005
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- 3,587
If it makes you feel any better, I screwed around with the last one I dropped in for hours. In my case, I was swapping in a later model dizzy for a duraspark conversion. I bet I bumped the key 50 times to get it down. I wa sure I had the wrong distributor. Eventually, it just dropped in. Maybe someone close to you has an extra dizzy you can take a look at to be sure it is correct.
ugly74
Bronco abuser
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
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it sounds to me like either the distributor, or oil pump shaft are too long.
all else being correct, the distributor should drop right in, and seat fully with one single "bump" of the starter.
after you put it in, and bump the starter, does it drop at all?
all else being correct, the distributor should drop right in, and seat fully with one single "bump" of the starter.
after you put it in, and bump the starter, does it drop at all?
fireman1749
Full Member
Yeah its the grease that holds it in I guess... I just did it two weeks ago...
OP
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
???? No this is a billit version of a standard Ford distributer mounted TFI IV ignition module type distributer. No coil here!
OP
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
I'm in pretty good with the local Kragen guys. I cam probably have them pull out a distributer for me to compare in the store. This is probably something I should do befor going too much further. It makes goo sense to me.
Dan
I realize theres no coil there but the bottom end of that dist that is pictured doesnt appear to be a stock ford gear it looks like the elcheapo ch#vy/ford converted type.
See the differance. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-850315/?image=large.
Just something to check as the company that made your dist seems to make there own gear it might just not be quite right.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 49,463
If you're indeed only an eighth of an inch away, I doubt it's the pump shaft misalignment not allowing the gears to mesh. If so, it'd be more than just 1/8" I would think. And as you've seen yourself, the dizzy is turning and the pump is pumping. If they're engaged enough for that to happen, then I'd agree with your assumption, and that of others, that something else is keeping it from seating.
I've heard of gears being in the wrong spot, of pump shafts being different sizes from the hole in the shaft, shafts being two diferent diameters (which may or may not effect the hole size) and maybe even a couple of other things as well. Like different block deck heights maybe? I would think that only effects the head location and not the distrubutor location, but hey, stranger things have happened!
Maybe try marking the bottom of the gear with something (don't have any Prussian Blue laying around by any chance, do you?) and see if it wears off when you turn the engine over. If it does, then the gear is seating against the block before the body is fully inserted.
If not, then maybe you can measure the depth of the hole in the shaft and compare it somehow to how much of the pump shaft sticks up beyond the block's thrust surface.
Not sure how you'd go about that last bit, but if you figure something out, let us know!
Good luck.
Paul
I've heard of gears being in the wrong spot, of pump shafts being different sizes from the hole in the shaft, shafts being two diferent diameters (which may or may not effect the hole size) and maybe even a couple of other things as well. Like different block deck heights maybe? I would think that only effects the head location and not the distrubutor location, but hey, stranger things have happened!
Maybe try marking the bottom of the gear with something (don't have any Prussian Blue laying around by any chance, do you?) and see if it wears off when you turn the engine over. If it does, then the gear is seating against the block before the body is fully inserted.
If not, then maybe you can measure the depth of the hole in the shaft and compare it somehow to how much of the pump shaft sticks up beyond the block's thrust surface.
Not sure how you'd go about that last bit, but if you figure something out, let us know!
Good luck.
Paul
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
I talked to the shop that I bought it from yesterday. The guy mentioned that he thinks there are 2 different lengths of the gear assembly on the bottom of the distributer and I may have the longer one. He was going to "stop by" the manufacturer this morning and grab a short one and send it to me.
Ii pulled the distributer out yesterday and the whole lower section of the distributer shaft stayed in the block! It was easy enough to remove with needle nose plyers but suprised me that it was removable from the distributer. The vendor told me "ya, thats the part I'm talking about". Since the bottom was off the distributer I test fitted the upper portion of the distributer and it dropped right in...... a little too easily. The o-ring on the shaft should engauge the block to some extent. The OD of the o-ring measures 1.545" and the hole in the block measures 1.560". I'm thinking that the o-ring should be .01-.02" larger than the 1.56" of the block. I mentioned that to the vendor also and he is going to talk to the manufacturer about that too.
Prior to removing the gear from the block I cranked the motor, I get 58 psi of oil pressure at free cranking speed. Looking down in to the block the gear is definatly engauged on to the cam gear, but it may be sitting a bit high.
I didn't get a chance to go to Kragen last night, hope to tonight.
Dan
Ii pulled the distributer out yesterday and the whole lower section of the distributer shaft stayed in the block! It was easy enough to remove with needle nose plyers but suprised me that it was removable from the distributer. The vendor told me "ya, thats the part I'm talking about". Since the bottom was off the distributer I test fitted the upper portion of the distributer and it dropped right in...... a little too easily. The o-ring on the shaft should engauge the block to some extent. The OD of the o-ring measures 1.545" and the hole in the block measures 1.560". I'm thinking that the o-ring should be .01-.02" larger than the 1.56" of the block. I mentioned that to the vendor also and he is going to talk to the manufacturer about that too.
Prior to removing the gear from the block I cranked the motor, I get 58 psi of oil pressure at free cranking speed. Looking down in to the block the gear is definatly engauged on to the cam gear, but it may be sitting a bit high.
I didn't get a chance to go to Kragen last night, hope to tonight.
Dan
barronj
Bronco Guru
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2009
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- 1,859
Shiiiiiit. That's not comforting! I've seen quick release steering wheels, but never a quick release distributor
;DAs I suggested itys probably a crappy conversion dist thats not worth the effort. Good thing that happened before you had it running otherwise you could have said good by to your crank. I would get a named brand dist after that incident.
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
Well I went to Kragen and measured a distributor...... WAY DIFFERENT!
I sent over a print with the various measurments to the supplier. He said he'll talk to the manufacturer tomorrow and see whats up. He said that he has sold humdreds of these without any issues. This wouldn't be the first time I have been the one to discover the rudimentry design flaw in something that has had hundreds or thousands sold befor. Someday ask me why Aussie locker has receintly revised their documentation for the acceptable range of backlash for their Dana 35 locker that they had sold 10's of thousands of!
Dan
I sent over a print with the various measurments to the supplier. He said he'll talk to the manufacturer tomorrow and see whats up. He said that he has sold humdreds of these without any issues. This wouldn't be the first time I have been the one to discover the rudimentry design flaw in something that has had hundreds or thousands sold befor. Someday ask me why Aussie locker has receintly revised their documentation for the acceptable range of backlash for their Dana 35 locker that they had sold 10's of thousands of!
Dan
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 3,413
I know exactly what you mean! Glad you were able to figure out why it wouldn't seat.
Bronco_69
Bronco Guru
those distributors are cheap JUNK. even if you get it right it will not last.
Key words "rudimentry design flaw" Sometimes things are cheap because they are cheap.
Did your supplier tell you who makes this dist? I'd doubt that they will do much about it they probably have a whole pile of broke ones awaiting to be fixed and resold.
Back lash in a locker is easy to explain as during machining bits tend to wear and backlash becomes greater until the bit is replaced. I worry less about backlash in a locker as long as the materials are good and dont fail. A dist that breaks at what 1-200 rpm is bad news, bad materials, and badly flawed due to there rudimentry design.
I'll say it again I'd get a named brand dist. As the next cheap one you get may actually last a little longer and fail at a bad time.
Did your supplier tell you who makes this dist? I'd doubt that they will do much about it they probably have a whole pile of broke ones awaiting to be fixed and resold.
Back lash in a locker is easy to explain as during machining bits tend to wear and backlash becomes greater until the bit is replaced. I worry less about backlash in a locker as long as the materials are good and dont fail. A dist that breaks at what 1-200 rpm is bad news, bad materials, and badly flawed due to there rudimentry design.
I'll say it again I'd get a named brand dist. As the next cheap one you get may actually last a little longer and fail at a bad time.
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
I may have mislead you on my previous post. This distributer was designed to be a 2 peice assembly, not one. This allows the manufacturer to make one top peice and different bottom pieces for the various applucations. I see no issues with the concept of the construction and beleive that the concept is solid. The only issues I am having with it are that the tolerance or the intentional dimension for the regestration boss is not correct for this application. It may also be that this particular distributer is not to specification which would be a manufacturer quality issue.
I have every confidence that IF the regestration boss was made to the same dimensions as the Ford factory distributers and the proper lower shaft for the application is used that it will easily last as long or longer than any Ford factory or sub $200.00 distributer would last.
I don't mind spending a bit extra for higher quality or higher performance but in this case a Ford factory distriubtor would have been quite sufficent for the job. If there was an off the shelf application for the distributor for my application I would have used a Cardone $85 distributor from Kragen. As it ends up There is no 351W, steel gear, distributor mounted TFI IV application. I know that there are a dozen ways to get to that same end. I could use a non-distributer mounted TFI IV type, but then I have to find somewhere to mount the TFI module. Without fender wells (my Bronco never had them since I owned it) the fire wall is already getting pretty full. I could have gone with a cast gear distributor, but then when it fails on me a few hundred miles from home, how do I replace it in the field? Not that the particular application I went with would be any better.
If I end up having to return the distributor for a refund I will probably end up going with the Cardone remote mouted TFI module style distributor. I am not really interested in spending $300 on a suplemly bitchen MSD megablaster trick bolt distributer that will keep good spark up to 20,000 rpm and has 1 PPM timeing stability. A standard factory Ford style distributor will power my 400+ HP 400 ft/lb idel to 5,000 RPM 351W just fine. I have about $5000.00 in to this motor at this point and if I thought that going with an aftermarket distributer would give it a signifcant difference in performance I would spend the money. The reality is though, all the distributer will do in my application is provide a timing signal to the ignition computer and fire the coil when the ignition computer tells it to.
Will keep you posted about what the supplier says,
Dan
I have every confidence that IF the regestration boss was made to the same dimensions as the Ford factory distributers and the proper lower shaft for the application is used that it will easily last as long or longer than any Ford factory or sub $200.00 distributer would last.
I don't mind spending a bit extra for higher quality or higher performance but in this case a Ford factory distriubtor would have been quite sufficent for the job. If there was an off the shelf application for the distributor for my application I would have used a Cardone $85 distributor from Kragen. As it ends up There is no 351W, steel gear, distributor mounted TFI IV application. I know that there are a dozen ways to get to that same end. I could use a non-distributer mounted TFI IV type, but then I have to find somewhere to mount the TFI module. Without fender wells (my Bronco never had them since I owned it) the fire wall is already getting pretty full. I could have gone with a cast gear distributor, but then when it fails on me a few hundred miles from home, how do I replace it in the field? Not that the particular application I went with would be any better.
If I end up having to return the distributor for a refund I will probably end up going with the Cardone remote mouted TFI module style distributor. I am not really interested in spending $300 on a suplemly bitchen MSD megablaster trick bolt distributer that will keep good spark up to 20,000 rpm and has 1 PPM timeing stability. A standard factory Ford style distributor will power my 400+ HP 400 ft/lb idel to 5,000 RPM 351W just fine. I have about $5000.00 in to this motor at this point and if I thought that going with an aftermarket distributer would give it a signifcant difference in performance I would spend the money. The reality is though, all the distributer will do in my application is provide a timing signal to the ignition computer and fire the coil when the ignition computer tells it to.
Will keep you posted about what the supplier says,
Dan
Bronco_69
Bronco Guru
i went to the SCAP metal yard yesterday and picked up a FREE roller cam OEM ford remote mount TFI distributor.
if that is your plan i would stick with a OEM part. they really do tend to last longer and perform better. MSD has bad luck with the shaft bushings going out. I think Bax had a MSD fail last month and Cardone is also very cheaply made.
if that is your plan i would stick with a OEM part. they really do tend to last longer and perform better. MSD has bad luck with the shaft bushings going out. I think Bax had a MSD fail last month and Cardone is also very cheaply made.
Got any pics of how your dist came apart? Maybe my thinking is just wrong.
I could care less about any claimed peformance most are bogus and not really what they do more of what it could do if they had to. But just running and not falling apart is perfromance in itself. To me scrimping on a dist for a $5K engine is a bad idea. Dont want a aftermarket dist? Oh yeah you already went with a aftermarket dist with no know name yet we see how that worked. As for supposed to be 2 piece so they can manufacture the same thing for more applications well I would say that its a very bad design it shouldnt come apart once assembled. In reality that means they are not putting much effort into these dizzy's. I'd say its kinda a BS answer as there are not many TFI applications and almost all the Ford applications use the same dist housing only the shaft and cam gear are different.
I know summit racing sells a few different TFI dizzys at least 2 have the TFI mounted to the dist and they are named brands. Sure they may cost a little more than what you paid but they are worth it because they dont fall apart.
But its your $5K motor do what you want I'm only suggesting what I would do.
You also have to consider that maybe theres a reason why a billet dist is only half the price of others.
I could care less about any claimed peformance most are bogus and not really what they do more of what it could do if they had to. But just running and not falling apart is perfromance in itself. To me scrimping on a dist for a $5K engine is a bad idea. Dont want a aftermarket dist? Oh yeah you already went with a aftermarket dist with no know name yet we see how that worked. As for supposed to be 2 piece so they can manufacture the same thing for more applications well I would say that its a very bad design it shouldnt come apart once assembled. In reality that means they are not putting much effort into these dizzy's. I'd say its kinda a BS answer as there are not many TFI applications and almost all the Ford applications use the same dist housing only the shaft and cam gear are different.
I know summit racing sells a few different TFI dizzys at least 2 have the TFI mounted to the dist and they are named brands. Sure they may cost a little more than what you paid but they are worth it because they dont fall apart.
But its your $5K motor do what you want I'm only suggesting what I would do.
You also have to consider that maybe theres a reason why a billet dist is only half the price of others.
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Bronchole
Bronco Guru
Well the final on this is that all of the distributers the place has measure the same for the regestration boss so they told me to return it for a refund.
I guess I am off to the junkyard for a peice of harness to move the TFI module to the remote mount type. Now I just need to figure out what to do with the 3 or 4 spare TFI modules that I use to carry as trail spares since they are not compatable to the remote mounted type setup
Dan
I guess I am off to the junkyard for a peice of harness to move the TFI module to the remote mount type. Now I just need to figure out what to do with the 3 or 4 spare TFI modules that I use to carry as trail spares since they are not compatable to the remote mounted type setup
Dan
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