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Lost compression - need ideas

centex77

Full Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
183
Shop called me yesterday after doing a test drive and said the engine was starting to scatter around 4000rpm when you stand on it. They brought it back and checked the compression and it was down to 70-90psi in all 8 cylinders where as previously it was 150-175psi in all cylinders. They did a leak down test and all cylinders showed 30-40% leak down (no previous numbers). The breather in the valve cover is full of oil and the plugs are black. He dumped some marvel mystery oil in a cylinder and checked again and nothing changed. Their thoughts are that when I was trying to get it to start previoulsy that I washed the cylinders down and the rings are toast and it needs new rings, hopefully, and they want $4500-5000.

I'm a bit skeptical. When I was trying to get it to crank I didn't try to crank it for more than 60-90secs total. I don't think that's enough to wash the cylinders down and the rings to not seal but maybe I'm wrong. I'm also wondering if maybe the valves were set when the engine was cold and once it warms up it's hanging the valves open and bleeding off compression. We are going to go ahead and pick it up tomorrow and we are going to do some of the test ourselves. We are planning a hot and cold compression test as well as dumping some 50w oil into a cylinder and retesting compression and leak down with that to try and isolate the issue.

I'm not knocking the shop as they've been great to work with and they've done awesome work. My brother in law and I built the motor so they are just helping us out but the price they are quoting me for putting new rings in is ridiculous. I can buy, and have found, assembled short blocks for $2500 that I can swap my top end on to it. Heck I've found 347 long blocks for what they are quoting me. I'm just looking for some ideas or thoughts that would cause all cylinders to suddenly lose all compression at the same time. That just seems strange to me.
 

73azbronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
7,851
I would tend to think losing all cylinder compression is a wiped out camshaft issue.
 

Timmy390

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Bronco Guru
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Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,650
Loc.
Conway, AR
$4500 - $5K for changing out rings? WOW all I got is WOW......you just got the "I don't want to work on it price".

Why was it at the shop? Was it running bad so you took it in?

What break in process did you follow?

Sounds valve train related to me but need more info......Could be rings.....

Who built the engine and what parts were used?

Tim
 
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centex77

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Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
183
I'd hope not. Brand new roller cam and lifters. I spoke to the shop and they scoped the lifters and all looked good.

What about stuck rings? This engine sat for a little over 3 years before we fired it.

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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
Messages
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$4500 - $5K for changing out rings? WOW all I got is WOW......you just got the "I don't want to work on it price".

Why was it at the shop? Was it running bad so you took it in?

What break in process did you follow?

Sounds valve train related to me but need more info......Could be rings.....

Who built the engine and what parts were used?

Tim
Was at the shop because I ran out of time to finish it. It never ran before I took it to them. Turns out I had the valves lashed to tight back then. They've since got it running until recently.

Engine has maybe 1 mile on it. Measure the run time in minutes actually.

Most of the parts are in my signature. I can get the rest when I get home.

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Timmy390

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Jan 1, 2011
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Loc.
Conway, AR
Roll it to TDC #1 and put some compressed air in the cylinder #1. Listen for the air escaping.......

Through intake = valve
Trough exhaust = valve
Through crank case = rings

Tim
 

Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
Compresson on a new motor doesnt just go away. Broken rings maybe, wrong set of rings maybe, timing chain set installed wrong maybe. Cylinder leak down test will tell you. Loosing everything on all cylinders is so rare so it has to be a real issue effecting everything. My bet is timing / valve train related.
 

gnpenning

Contributor
Bronco Slave
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Dec 26, 2011
Messages
2,252
Loc.
I have more questions than answers.
I agree with Tim, a cylinder leakage test will give you more detailed information than a compression testas to condition of the inside of the motor.

Have you or anyone else done a complete check on fuel and ignition systems?
 
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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
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Ignorant question but what would the fuel and ignition systems have to do with it?

Shop performed a leak down test while hot and it came back as 30-40% on all cylinders.

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SHX669

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,997
My guess is wiped out cam or timing chain .
A friend built a race motor and had the wrong -?? - pushrods ? Valve springs ? rocker ratio ? -don't exactly remember but it ate all the cam lobes in minutes - or less.
 
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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
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My brother in law and I built this motor. One of the reasons I couldn't get it started was we had the valves to tight. They loosened them and relashed them and it fired right up.

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Rustytruck

Bronco Guru
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
10,875
With a roller cam less likely to wipe the cam more likely to fubar the push rods.
 
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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
Messages
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They are thicker push rods. Can't find my notes on exact size but they are upgraded from stock. Doesn't mean they aren't bent but worth mentioning. Quick build sheet below:

Ford 302

Bored 30 over

Balanced rotating assembly

Forged flat top pistons

Chromoly rings

Stock crank

Stock rods

Trick Flow Twisted Wedge aluminum heads that have been CNC ported 66cc chambers

Trick Flow 1.6 aluminum roller rockers

Trick Flow roller cam with .542/.563 lift and 286/294 duration on a 112* lobe seperation

Summit Racing gear drive

Long tube headers

Weiand Dual Plane intake manifold

Custom carburetor

MSD Billet Distributor



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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
Messages
183
It is an HO firing order cam. I gave the shop the cam card and mentioned that. I hope that's not it but I'll check.

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Jebus

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Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
303
Loc.
Longview, WA
What are the specs on the rebuild to the block?
How were the cylinder bores addressed at rebuild date?

Nevermind, I see it now, "Bored 30 over". Did it ever get hot?

It's usually a symptom of a worn out engine, or a roasted one.

Wrong piston parts? or as others said, somebody else should double check the valve train.
 
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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
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Engine has been run maybe 10-15mins. Never got over 190*.

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centex77

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Oct 31, 2017
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183
I'll find out tomorrow. I'm going to test compression cold and if it's good I'm going to get her hot, back the lash all the way off, and test the compression again. If it goes up I've found my problem. If it stays low I'll have some more digging to do.

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