M5ODR2 conversion complete

[Timmy390]

First and foremost a HUGE thanks goes out to everyone for the help along the way. Without the past posts and build threads along with real time answers, I'm not sure this would have turned out on the positive side of things.

When I say complete I mean the hard items. She runs and drives now.....No issues but I still have a few small things to complete inside the cab. Mainly the shifter bezels and boots for both T-case and Trans. I need to paint the DIY crossmember and redo the exhaust. I kind of "jerry rigged" it for now. It works and that's all that matters.

Just went for a quick drive......just a quick shakedown. No banging or clanging.....

Clutch is stiffer than the old but it releases smooth. Still might have some air in the system. Talk about hard to bleed......PITA

Got lucky.....the used M5R2 is quiet as a mouse. I'm running Syncromesh in it vs. the Micron V Not sure that makes a difference.

I'll put together a parts list and try to link all my question posts in this thread......Add some pics too......

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

No bangs or clunks is a great initial sign!

Paul

 

[Bajabrewer]

Awesome! I'm looking forward to doing this swap later this year & I'm sure I'll look here for answers to questions I'm going to have. My plan is to put the M5ODR2 behind a 250 straight 6 so I'm sure I'll have my own challenges.

Thanks for sharing the info Tim.

 

[Timmy390]

Think this is the complete parts list I used....Disclaimer This all worked for me but might not work for you. There are other parts combinations out there that may or may not work. I did my own research and shopped around for the best prices and shipping. Parts were collected over time. BCBroncos sells a kit if you don't like the hunt. I clocked my T-case up one set of holes thus gaining clearance for the front driveshaft/crossmember. This required the T-case shifter bracket to be modified for use with the twin sticks. I also had to slightly bend the twins to clear the transmission shifter. I plan to change the trans shifter to something shorter (it's too high for me) and shorten the twin sticks (also a bit tail for my liking).

I built my crossmember to use the stock trans mount.

2000 F150 4.2L M5ODR2 (shifter in rear position) Pulled it myself including boot, bezel and shifter. Grabbed all bolts and plates for the transmission mount.

D20 adapter JBG
Advance Adapters ZF 5 SPEED X BRONCO DANA 20 50-4303

Crossmember
Built it myself. Built to use the stock trans mount.

Driveshafts
4 inch total difference in overall length of trans and adapter. Had D-shafts modified. 4 inches off the rear and 4 inches added to the front. Don't use my measurements. Measure for yourself.

BC Broncos
21-23000 ZF Clutch Rod Kit for Early Bronco

RockAuto
LUK LMC176 Master Cylinder 1992 FORD F-150 5.8L V8 ******updated****** Read below post as to why and what
LUK LSC003B Clutch Slave Cylinder 1993 FORD F-150 5.8L V8
PERFECTION CLUTCH braided hose/line 185201 1993 FORD F-150 5.8L V8
ANCHOR 2871 Trans mount 1999 FORD F-150 4.2L V6

Wild Horses
8509 Adjustable Shift Detent Kit for use with Bronco Dana 20 Not used
8627 Output Shaft Needle/Roller Bearings (14) For use with Dana 20 Not used
8526 Seal & Gasket Kit for use with Dana 20

JB CUSTOM FABRICATION
ZF/M5ODR2 Twin Sticks for J shift

Transmission Parts Distributors
M5R1 & M5R2 TRANSMISSION FRONT TOP COVER STEEL WELCH PLUGS SET OF 3 FITS '88+ FORD & MAZDA 306484K* Did not fit. Plugs were 18mm and the holes are just over 16mm. I used freeze plus from local parts store. Just measured till I found one that fit.
M5R2 TRANSMISSION OVERHAUL KIT WITH GASKETS, SEALS & O-RINGS FITS ' 88+ FORD 476002

Tim

 

[Timmy390]

Some might find all these links helpful, Think they cover all the questions and issues I had.

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/anyone-shorten-their-zf-m5odr2-shifter-handle.314608/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/zf-m5od-conversion-driveshaft-help.313704/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/bc-zf-clutch-rod-please-help.314220/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/zf-m5odr2-clutch-help.314115/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/zf-m5od-conversion-driveshaft-help.313704/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/building-my-own-zf-crossmember-advice.313864/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/m5odr2-angle-of-the-dangle-3-degrees.313963/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/twin-sticks-m5odr2-interference-suggestions.313914/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/twin-sticks-with-factory-bench-seat.303731/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/m5odr2-twin-stick-help-clarification-grind-webbing.313822/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/m5odr2-5-speed-overhaul-manual.313595/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/advance-adapters-zf-to-d20-help.313509/

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/leaking-advance-adapter-d20-to-m5r2.315075/

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

That was a lot of work just putting that list together!
Thanks for that.

 

[Timmy390]

That was a lot of work just putting that list together!
Thanks for that.

Just trying to give back to CB where I've gotten SO much help and info over the years.

Tim

 

[Slednut10]

Think this is the complete parts list I used....Disclaimer This all worked for me but might not work for you. There are other parts combinations out there that may or may not work. I did my own research and shopped around for the best prices and shipping. Parts were collected over time. BCBroncos sells a kit if you don't like the hunt. I clocked my T-case up one set of holes thus gaining clearance for the front driveshaft/crossmember. This required the T-case shifter bracket to be modified for use with the twin sticks. I also had to slightly bend the twins to clear the transmission shifter. I plan to change the trans shifter to something shorter (it's too high for me) and shorten the twin sticks (also a bit tail for my liking).

I built my crossmember to use the stock trans mount.

2000 F150 4.2L M5ODR2 (shifter in rear position) Pulled it myself including boot, bezel and shifter. Grabbed all bolts and plates for the transmission mount.

D20 adapter JBG
Advance Adapters ZF 5 SPEED X BRONCO DANA 20 50-4303

Crossmember
Built it myself. Built to use the stock trans mount.

Driveshafts
4 inch total difference in overall length of trans and adapter. Had D-shafts modified. 4 inches off the rear and 4 inches added to the front. Don't use my measurements. Measure for yourself.

BC Broncos
21-23000 ZF Clutch Rod Kit for Early Bronco

RockAuto
LUK LMC176 Master Cylinder 1992 FORD F-150 5.8L V8
LUK LSC003B Clutch Slave Cylinder 1993 FORD F-150 5.8L V8
PERFECTION CLUTCH braided hose/line 185201 1993 FORD F-150 5.8L V8
ANCHOR 2871 Trans mount 1999 FORD F-150 4.2L V6

Wild Horses
8509 Adjustable Shift Detent Kit for use with Bronco Dana 20 Not used
8627 Output Shaft Needle/Roller Bearings (14) For use with Dana 20 Not used
8526 Seal & Gasket Kit for use with Dana 20

JB CUSTOM FABRICATION
ZF/M5ODR2 Twin Sticks for J shift

Transmission Parts Distributors
M5R1 & M5R2 TRANSMISSION FRONT TOP COVER STEEL WELCH PLUGS SET OF 3 FITS '88+ FORD & MAZDA 306484K* Did not fit. Plugs were 18mm and the holes are just over 16mm. I used freeze plus from local parts store. Just measured till I found one that fit.
M5R2 TRANSMISSION OVERHAUL KIT WITH GASKETS, SEALS & O-RINGS FITS ' 88+ FORD 476002

Tim

Dorman 555-108 freeze plugs for shift tower

 

[Timmy390]

Got the shifters all sorted out. Twins are so much better than the J shift was. Still need to do a few things to tidy up and then some paint once outside temps get in the 70's

Tim

 

[Timmy390]

1 month update.....I've put some miles on the rig and everything works as in no issues (speed O is bouncing like a super ball but was before the conversion) but a few refinements are needed.

Twin Sticks are back to JB Fab for modifications. I'm getting 2.5 inches removed form the sticks. That should resolve the interference issues with the shifter and shortened to my liking. I can then finish up the shift boot area.

Clutch....First few drives it seemed fine but I'm finding in stop and go driving or in parking lots and taking off on a hill, I don't have the "feather" I would like to have and the clutch engages and disengages in the first 1/3 of the pedal travel. It's also a bit "grabbie" after stop and go traffic. Once rolling again it seems ok. It's not a problem it's more of it not being predictable/reliable in it's release. Reminds me of my Shelby which is the opposite with first being gears so high you really have to be on the gas when taking off else you will kill it. It also has that anti roll back brake thing going on which is unpredictable......Anyway..... Right now I'm running 1992 F150 LUK LMC176 Master Cylinder Bore Size: 0.875 in. I'm considering trying a smaller bore......1995 F150 LUK LMC177 Master Cylinder Bore Size: 0.708 in/18.00mm The slave is stock 2000 F150

Less fluid movement SHOULD give the pedal more travel right? More travel means more feathering or an I off on my thinking.

Tim

 

[DirtDonk]

That’s an interesting thought on the cylinder size. You’re correct about less fluid movement, but I have no idea how it will affect clutch engagement.
They’re interested to hear the results though. Or better yet, hear from someone who’s done it already.
Been there, done that reports are often time and money savers!

 

[Timmy390]

There's also a 0.625 bore or 5/8ths I've read reference to. Maybe a Wildwood MC? Still trying to run it down.

Going to the junk yard tomorrow for a Electric Power Steering unit for my Samurai (too many projects)......I'm going to look for a used 0.708 in/18.00mm MC as a test unit.....93-96 F150's

Tim

 

[Big Slim]

i finally got my driveline in and the LUK177 (18mm) bore is not quite enough. same slave. on full stroke i can turn the transfer case yolk but not as easily as in neutral. i can hear a slight rubbing so it is so close to fully disingauging. i was going to look for 3/4 bore (19mm). but i can push it in by hand. so if i can find one i think it will be a nice easy clutch.

 

[Timmy390]

i finally got my driveline in and the LUK177 (18mm) bore is not quite enough. same slave. on full stroke i can turn the transfer case yolk but not as easily as in neutral. i can hear a slight rubbing so it is so close to fully disingauging. i was going to look for 3/4 bore (19mm). but i can push it in by hand. so if i can find one i think it will be a nice easy clutch.

That's discouraging lol. I have to ask....are you sure you have all the air out. I had a heck of a time getting the system bleed. Really thought the 0.170 reduction in size would be perfect.

Tim

 

[bronkenn]

I used the same MC that was spec'd for the year of M5 I used.(1990 F250) I did relocate the MC a little higher up on the firewall and it works really nice.

 

[Timmy390]

I used the same MC that was spec'd for the year of M5 I used.(1990 F250) I did relocate the MC a little higher up on the firewall and it works really nice.

That one is listed as 22.35mm or 0.880 of an inch. Call it the same bore as the one I'm using now.

I'm using the slave for year of trans 2000. The master for that year is remote reservoir so I don't use it. The bore for that year MC is 18mm or 0.709 inches same as the LUK177 Big Slim is having issues with. I'm using a bore that's 0.175 bigger.

Maybe it's a stroke thing? Know for a fact my MC bottoms out. I'm getting a full stroke. 2/3 of the stroke does nothing. I put a stopper in just before bottom. Stiff I don't mind just need more feather.

Tim

 

[Big Slim]

i think ill keep trying to bleed it. i did bleed it but didn't get any bubbles out. then ran out of fluid. others say this master has worked so just need to work this problem a bit more. the first part of the stroke is super easy to push.
my numbers are showing i could get about 1.2mm more stroke on the slave with the 3/4" master with same stroke. might be just enough. lowers mech advantage to 50:14 from 56:1 dreading a total rework if doesn't work. going to the .88 master would kill my mech advantage. would go down to 36:1 in same mounting location.
how far down on the pedal is yours mounted?

 

[Timmy390]

I suspect air......I had lots of air that kept coming up through the MC. Had the top off the MC slave bleeder sealed and when I pushed the peddle ever so slightly (maybe 1/2 inch), bubble, let it up, press slightly again, bubble. So much so I resorted to having my daughter watch the MC and call out "bubble" as I worked the peddle. Once it stopped...next day...same thing "bubble", bubble...bubble

My peddle got stiffer and stiffer in the process. It's the same stiffness all the way through the stroke. MAYBE easier the first 1/8 inch. The slave throw out bearing is in contact with the clutch fingers all the time. The large spring on the slave holds pressure on the throw out to fingers so there isn't really any "takeup" in the stroke.

Tim

 

[msmith]

Good info!

I'm still trying to decide whether to stick with the factory 3 speed, the M5ODR2, or the AX15.

 

[Timmy390]

Well....I thought I this project was complete.....I got a leak. Dripping between trans and D20 adapter. Figure it's the output shaft seal on the trans.

ALSO......one of the weights flew off my driveshaft. Felt the vibration and crawled under and found the drip (which appears to have just started) and the missing weight.

Always something

Tim