New painless and ron francis wiring woes

[4x4man514]

Ok so here's my latest progress. Or non progress.

I went back and checked my grounds again. I haven't added any yet. I don't know what I wS doing the first time but this time I was getting .5 to .6 everywhere. The meter would read .5 just from touching the two leads together so I'm thinking I would have to call .5 my zero. But still no luck with all the same gremlins.


And I also tried to start it with some starring fluid. Fuel is def my issue. It tries to start on the starting fluid but sounds terrible. Alot of backfiring. But as soon as the sf is gone nothing. I tried to raise the pressure to closer to 50 pounds but it didn't make any difference.


So what next?

 

[ba123]

What about testing for power at your injectors?

Not 100% sure, but should be constant power on one wire and then ground when it’s pulse time on the other wire, so if you figure out which one and check power to a constant ground (like battery -).

Key in run position.

 

[4x4man514]

I do have constant hot on one side and I tried a noid light on it and it flickered. Could it be too weak?

 

[ba123]

I was mixing up threads for a minute….have you checked for power at your fuel pump? FP relay? Inertia switch is set or bypassed properly?

 

[73azbronco]

ran and sounded terrible, sounds like wires to wrong plugs...

 

[4x4man514]

I was mixing up threads for a minute….have you checked for power at your fuel pump? FP relay? Inertia switch is set or bypassed properly?

I'm showing pressure while the motor is turning over and yes inertia is good. Not tripped anyway

 

[4x4man514]

ran and sounded terrible, sounds like wires to wrong plugs...

I'm pretty sure I got that right but ill double check. Could be 180 out i guess but its still not getting fuel

 

[ba123]

ran and sounded terrible, sounds like wires to wrong plugs...

I agree. It should sound ok, even if just started for a sec on sf.

What firing order did you set it for and what exact engine and year? Stock or changed cam?

 

[4x4man514]

13726548 . Its a 1990 5.8 out of a truck with a aftermarket roller cam with the same order. I feel like I could get it to smooth out if I could get the timing right but with no fuel it doesn't really run but for a second firing once or twice tops.

 

[rocknhorse76]

Double and triple check your plug wires. Roll the engine back over to #1 TDC on the compression stroke and make sure the distributor is stabbed properly. If it’s 180 out, your injectors won’t fire properly either.

 

[ba123]

Double and triple check your plug wires. Roll the engine back over to #1 TDC on the compression stroke and make sure the distributor is stabbed properly. If it’s 180 out, your injectors won’t fire properly either.

Exactly. It does sound like that's the problem. Even if your timing is slightly off, it will run if all other things are ok.

Just in case you don't know...and it's ok if you don't, the crankshaft turns twice around (once to push the pistons up for compression and burning the fuel and then another to push the exhaust out). If sequential fuel, the injectors push the fuel on the compression stroke and then the spark plug fires, and then the exhaust stroke pushes the gas out.

So, to set the ignition on the right stroke, it's all up to potential human error, which happens all the time.

You can find the compression stroke by putting your finger over the spark plug hole, or a wet paper towel in the hole of any number of things to feel the pressure pushing out because the valves are closed only on the compression stroke after letting the fuel in. You can also find it if you take off the valve cover and you can watch the valves operate in order. First watch the intake valve depress and close (that's compression), then watch the exhaust valve open and close...

Find where the INTAKE valve opens and then the piston is at the top , stop there. It doesn't matter where the distributor it, you can put it anywhere, rotate it wherever you want but ideal so you have room to either side. Wherever the pointer is pointing, that is where you put the #1 plug wire. Then, (this is also a part people often get wrong), these distributors rotate backwards, so COUNTER-CLOCKWISE 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

Hopefully you did something different in there and it's a simple fix. Otherwise, we'll keep trying.

 

[73azbronco]

Great catch, I didnt even think of the 180 out deal, even with plug wires to right plug, it will sound like a crap for a few seconds then deafening silence, then someone says "crap"..

 

[4x4man514]

I'm pretty sure I'm in the right spot but the next time I'm out there ill check again. I've tried it 180 deg from where it is now but not with. Starting fluid. So ill try that . Maybe that will get those injectors to squirting.

 

[DirtDonk]

If there is a common vacuum port, especially, if it’s up by the throttlebody, you could attach a temporary fuel source and just see if it will run a little longer on fuel dribbling in from a small tube.
It won’t be metered properly, but it should tell you whether it’s running correctly or not when it gets fuel.
We got a range rover from halfway into the outback back to town one afternoon in Moab.
Couldn’t find the inertia switch, which we assumed had cut off fuel, so we just jury rigged a water bottle and vacuum hose to a plenum vacuum fitting.
I sat in the passenger seat, squeezing the bottle now and then, and we drove it all the way back like that.
Well, almost… Over several nasty obstacles we had to do the bottle and pull with another vehicle.
But all you’re doing is testing the theory for a few moments. So shouldn’t be as tricky.

 

[4x4man514]

Thanks Paul. I might try that if I can get back to that point. Unfortunately I seem to be regressing instead of progressing. This is my latest issue.

A friend of mine told me it might be the tps sensor wasn't set properly. So I checked it and it seemed that was the case. It was showing .52 volts instead of yhe .96 to .98 he said it should be showing. So I adjusted it and got it set at .97. It ramps up smoothly and I thought maybe I had it.

But now for some reason I have 0 fuel pressure. Aaarrrggghhhh!!!! My pumps are running and I can here the fuel returning to the tank. But no pressure. I had like 50 pounds the last time I was out here. I wouldn't think the tps sensor could cause this but what would? Are high pressure pump failures common? Or could this be something else?

On another note. My bronco is set up with a pusher pump pulling from a tank selector switch/valve to the hp pump . Returning to the switch/valve and back to the respective tank. I've noticed that the fuel sounds like its returning only to the rear tank reguuardless of the switch position. Due to the fact the gauge isn't working I guess this could be part of the issue? Any thoughts?

I'm wondering if its been pulling from one tank and returning to the other and now ones empty. But then again if it was empty I guess I wouldn't hear fuel returning.

Thanks for yalls help. Im about ready to run it off a cliff.

If there is a common vacuum port, especially, if it’s up by the throttlebody, you could attach a temporary fuel source and just see if it will run a little longer on fuel dribbling in from a small tube.
It won’t be metered properly, but it should tell you whether it’s running correctly or not when it gets fuel.
We got a range rover from halfway into the outback back to town one afternoon in Moab.
Couldn’t find the inertia switch, which we assumed had cut off fuel, so we just jury rigged a water bottle and vacuum hose to a plenum vacuum fitting.
I sat in the passenger seat, squeezing the bottle now and then, and we drove it all the way back like that.
Well, almost… Over several nasty obstacles we had to do the bottle and pull with another vehicle.
But all you’re doing is testing the theory for a few moments. So shouldn’t be as tricky.

Ogress

 

[ba123]

Yeah, I’d definitely make sure it’s a 4 way valve that selects 2 and 2 so it can take and return to the same tank.

 

[73azbronco]

Thanks Paul. I might try that if I can get back to that point. Unfortunately I seem to be regressing instead of progressing. This is my latest issue.

A friend of mine told me it might be the tps sensor wasn't set properly. So I checked it and it seemed that was the case. It was showing .52 volts instead of yhe .96 to .98 he said it should be showing. So I adjusted it and got it set at .97. It ramps up smoothly and I thought maybe I had it.

But now for some reason I have 0 fuel pressure. Aaarrrggghhhh!!!! My pumps are running and I can here the fuel returning to the tank. But no pressure. I had like 50 pounds the last time I was out here. I wouldn't think the tps sensor could cause this but what would? Are high pressure pump failures common? Or could this be something else?

On another note. My bronco is set up with a pusher pump pulling from a tank selector switch/valve to the hp pump . Returning to the switch/valve and back to the respective tank. I've noticed that the fuel sounds like its returning only to the rear tank reguuardless of the switch position. Due to the fact the gauge isn't working I guess this could be part of the issue? Any thoughts?

I'm wondering if its been pulling from one tank and returning to the other and now ones empty. But then again if it was empty I guess I wouldn't hear fuel returning.

Thanks for yalls help. Im about ready to run it off a cliff.

Ogress

Do you get pressure when moving key from off to run, before going to start? That should happen no matter what.

 

[4x4man514]

Yeah, I’d definitely make sure it’s a 4 way valve that selects 2 and 2 so it can take and return to the same tank.

its definitely the right valve. question is is it functioning correctly(its very old) or have i goofed up with the wiring. im not sure how to tropible shoot it. i dont guess its got anyhting to do with my current fuel pressure problem.

 

[4x4man514]

Do you get pressure when moving key from off to run, before going to start? That should happen no matter what.

no. im not getting pressure at all now. the pump is running like its suppsed to but ever since i put that starting fluid in it the other day its not showing any fuel pressure. could a backfire have messed something up? this just makes no sense to me. are these pumps temperamental?

 

[4x4man514]

if i remember right the pump is a walbro 392. ive been seeing some bad reviews on them. do yall think when i adjusted the regulator from 38 to 50 pounds i could have killed the pump?