New painless and ron francis wiring woes

[Got4wd]

Hey guys. I finally got my wiring on my eb finished and well I have quite a few problems I need help with as I'm am not good with this sort of thing to begin with. In the last year I have really buckled down to get her on the rd and this has really taken the wind out of my sails. To the point I dunno if ill ever get to enjoy it.

Anyways enough crying. A lil backstory. I just put a painless harness in my 72 and a ronfrancis efi harness on my 393. Both came from wild horses in case yall are wondering the exact model of harnesses.

Both are not working correctly. I don't think the issues are connected but they might be.

First . The battery is old. I didn't want to buy a new one and watch it go bad while the eb never left the shop so I have a charger on it when I'm testing everything. When its right ill buy a good battery.

1. Wiper motor. Ran on low but blew the fuse when I went to high the first time I tried it. After that it blew as soon as I switched it on . With motor unplugged fuse is fine. Is this indicative of a bad motor or something else? How can I test motor?

2. Fuel level reads e on both tanks. I know they both have 5 gallons in each of them. at rest the needle is below E when switched on it rises to E then stops. Would this be senders? Coincidental that its the same on both tanks. How can I troubleshoot this?

3. Maybe worst issue. Blinkers work fine with lights off. Lights on and the front left indicator light comes on and blinks slowly. The actual bulb doesn't burn at all. I've checked grounds and connections they seem good. I've swapped side markers and blinkers and yhe problem moves accordingly so I don't think there is a problem with the lights themselves. Im leaning toward something in the column but don't know where to start with troubleshooting.

4. Maybe separate altogether but I cant get the motor started either. It will crank fine but not start. I have spark at the plug. I've checked to make sure I wasn't 180 out and I've moved the dizzy all over with out so much as a cough. I tried a noid light on the injector harness and it flickered but I'm not too sure the injectors are firing . Swapped plugs and they looked dry. 38 pounds of constant pressure on the rail.

5. I dunno i if its the charger or something else but when the ignition is on the alternator and the efi relays start heating up. That doesn't seem right to me but I don't know what to look for.

I dunno if any of these issues are related. And I don't know which direction to turn. I have worked so hard to get to this grand finally and poof. I feel like Clark Griswold with his house lights in Christmas vacation. This sux.

Thanks
Kevin

I can help with the painless wipers. There are like 6 combos under the dash where the wipers plug in. It’s right above the parking brake bracket. It’s the same plug that is up by the wipers. Keep flipping them till you get them right and not blow the fuse. I had this same issue days ago.

Add grounds frame to body. Body to motor. Grounds are very important


hope that helps you a little

 

[4x4man514]

I can help with the painless wipers. There are like 6 combos under the dash where the wipers plug in. It’s right above the parking brake bracket. It’s the same plug that is up by the wipers. Keep flipping them till you get them right and not blow the fuse. I had this same issue days ago.

Add grounds frame to body. Body to motor. Grounds are very important


hope that helps you a little

I'm thinking now motor is kaput. It seems im getting power when im supposed to with the red white and blue wires black wire is only question. Has anyone noticed if this motor should be able to turn manually? Because I can't move it.

 

[DirtDonk]

The gearing is all wrong for being able to turn it easily by hand.
Are you trying to manipulate the wipers by the linkage, or are you grabbing the shaft by itself?
Either way, I would think it would be a problem to turn the motor that way.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

I got ya. I thought about that wasn't sure. Looks like there is no way around just buying another motor and trying it. More $$$.

 

[DirtDonk]

Rather than buying a new one, can't you just connect the different wires to power and ground, to see if it's still working? Bypassing the switch in other words.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

Well I tried that but I'm not sure i got it right. I had red and blue hot then later red and white hot then just ground the bracket? And what do I do with the black wire?

 

[rocknhorse76]

Forget about the wiper motor for the time being and concentrate on grounding. First off, before all of the “senior” members try to discount what I tell you, I’m a commercial/industrial electrician of nearly 30 years and have seen A LOT of seemingly major electrical issues that were merely bad ground and/or bonding connections. What you are looking for is an equipotential grounding plane between the body, frame, drivetrain, and wiring harness.

Let’s start with all that pretty paint lol. Freshly painted frames and bodies are a bane to the existence of grounding. All bolted connections need to be clean and free of all paint to ensure electrical continuity. You need a good (I.e. BIG) ground wire between the engine and frame and engine to the battery. I usually use the grounding lug on the engine block that is at the front under the passenger side head. Make sure the threads are clean too. Ground the battery there and run a big braided ground strap down to the frame. Make sure the frame connection is bare steel where the strap is connected. Run another small ground strap from the intake manifold bolt that the RF EFI harness is grounded to up to the firewall. Again, make sure that the threads are clean and free of paint. If your alternator bracket is painted, make sure that the spots where it contacts the head and alternator are bare metal so the alternator case is grounded to the engine. Any threaded connections need to be clean as well.

Run a ground wire or strap from each fuel tank sending unit plate to the body and then another one from the body to the frame. Remember, bare metal contact! I also ground the body to the frame at the front and rear of the vehicle to ensure that all the lighting and accessories work. A lot of the bulbs get their grounds from the body. Any point where your wiring harness grounds to the body or frame needs to be a bare metal and tight connection. As mentioned earlier in this thread, It’s not a bad idea to install grounding jumpers where body parts bolt together either. At the very least, make sure that the bolts are in clean threads and there is some bare metal contact. I know you hate the idea of scuffing that pretty paint, but it’s worth it if you want to be able to drive your bronco.

Now you can go back to beating your head against the wall working on that wiper motor hahaha.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Well I tried that but I'm not sure i got it right. I had red and blue hot then later red and white hot then just ground the bracket? And what do I do with the black wire?

Do nothing with the black wire or even the red wire. Those are only for parking and right now you only need to make sure the motor works. +12V to the white wire only, ground the motor. If that works you can put +12V to the blue wire only and see if the high speed works.

 

[Jeff10]

Hey 4x4man514,

You're getting a lot of great advice here. You'll find your way. Just try not to fix everything at the same time. Moving from one to another when you get stumped may not be a bad idea, though.

I have had problems with a couple of different issues related to light corrosion on contact surfaces. One was contacts for a fuse in the fuse block, and more recently I was having intermittent issues with one or both of the turn signal indicators illuminating when the lights were turned on. I think one problem was a ground wire connection. The other more frustrating problem turned out to be a light corrosion build-up inside the parking lamp bulb socket, and probably the contact surfaces that the pins on the bulb rotate into. Some Emory cloth and WD 40 fixed the problem. (Well, maybe I should say that it hasn't come back.)

Good luck to you.

Jeff

 

[4x4man514]

Ok

Forget about the wiper motor for the time being and concentrate on grounding. First off, before all of the “senior” members try to discount what I tell you, I’m a commercial/industrial electrician of nearly 30 years and have seen A LOT of seemingly major electrical issues that were merely bad ground and/or bonding connections. What you are looking for is an equipotential grounding plane between the body, frame, drivetrain, and wiring harness.

Let’s start with all that pretty paint lol. Freshly painted frames and bodies are a bane to the existence of grounding. All bolted connections need to be clean and free of all paint to ensure electrical continuity. You need a good (I.e. BIG) ground wire between the engine and frame and engine to the battery. I usually use the grounding lug on the engine block that is at the front under the passenger side head. Make sure the threads are clean too. Ground the battery there and run a big braided ground strap down to the frame. Make sure the frame connection is bare steel where the strap is connected. Run another small ground strap from the intake manifold bolt that the RF EFI harness is grounded to up to the firewall. Again, make sure that the threads are clean and free of paint. If your alternator bracket is painted, make sure that the spots where it contacts the head and alternator are bare metal so the alternator case is grounded to the engine. Any threaded connections need to be clean as well.

Run a ground wire or strap from each fuel tank sending unit plate to the body and then another one from the body to the frame. Remember, bare metal contact! I also ground the body to the frame at the front and rear of the vehicle to ensure that all the lighting and accessories work. A lot of the bulbs get their grounds from the body. Any point where your wiring harness grounds to the body or frame needs to be a bare metal and tight connection. As mentioned earlier in this thread, It’s not a bad idea to install grounding jumpers where body parts bolt together either. At the very least, make sure that the bolts are in clean threads and there is some bare metal contact. I know you hate the idea of scuffing that pretty paint, but it’s worth it if you want to be able to drive your bronco.

Now you can go back to beating your head against the wall working on that wiper motor hahaha.

rockinhorse, thanks for all that detailed information. im not going to say grounding is not my problem but i will say that i had heard before that it could be an issue so i tried to go overkill with my grounding and i really did make sure to remove the paint everywhere i ran a ground. i used 2/0 awg battery cable for my grounds and i used the bolt on the front of the motor you refernced. enginr to frame. engine to battery. and engine to body. it was a smaller (10 gauge i think) wire from that same bolt to the alternator housing. i made sure i had a clean ground at all 4 corners with the lights to body.

what i havent done yet is the ground from the efi harness ground to firewall you mentioned. does this really need to be one of those braided cables? are they better for some reason than a large wire? ive heard other people reference that as well.

and i think i just had the fuel tanks grounded with the harness and not the body or frame so that is something else i will check out.

since were on grounds let me ask this. i took azbroncos advice about checking resistance of the grounds i ran a wire from negative battery post to each grounding point (that is the correct way to check it right?) at every point i got a reading of 3.7 except right at the battery there i was getting a 2.5. i have no idea if that is high or sounds right. or if it is high what to do about it. it was practically the same everywhere so im assuming that means the grounds were good.

i think i found the wiper issue but do you really think the blinker problem is a ground? one thing i did notice is the more i checked and tinkered with it trying to figure out, my blinkers quit working altogether. i swapped the blinker and hazard flasher and they started working again (wrong but working). do you think a problem fried the flasher or maybe it was just a bad flasher from the get go.

thanks again!
kevin

 

[4x4man514]

Do nothing with the black wire or even the red wire. Those are only for parking and right now you only need to make sure the motor works. +12V to the white wire only, ground the motor. If that works you can put +12V to the blue wire only and see if the high speed works.

thanks a bunch viper! thats exactly what i was trying to figure out. so i checked it like you said and with the white wire it would turn but slowly. and it sounded kinda labored. with the blue wire nothing and the wires got hot really quick. im guessing this means the motor is bad right?

thanks again!

 

[4x4man514]

Hey 4x4man514,

You're getting a lot of great advice here. You'll find your way. Just try not to fix everything at the same time. Moving from one to another when you get stumped may not be a bad idea, though.

I have had problems with a couple of different issues related to light corrosion on contact surfaces. One was contacts for a fuse in the fuse block, and more recently I was having intermittent issues with one or both of the turn signal indicators illuminating when the lights were turned on. I think one problem was a ground wire connection. The other more frustrating problem turned out to be a light corrosion build-up inside the parking lamp bulb socket, and probably the contact surfaces that the pins on the bulb rotate into. Some Emory cloth and WD 40 fixed the problem. (Well, maybe I should say that it hasn't come back.)

Good luck to you.

Jeff

thanks for the words of encouragement jeff! i need it this thing is trying me hard! lol.

do you remember where the ground issue was? this sounds like the same issue. the guy i talked to at painless told me the same thing about checking the socket. i havent checked that but all of this is brand new stuff. corrosion shouldnt be an isssue for me. and i tried swapping the side marker light with the blinker and the problem moved so im thinking the lights themselves should be fine.

thanks again!

 

[Viperwolf1]

thanks a bunch viper! thats exactly what i was trying to figure out. so i checked it like you said and with the white wire it would turn but slowly. and it sounded kinda labored. with the blue wire nothing and the wires got hot really quick. im guessing this means the motor is bad right?

thanks again!

Unless you are using some really small gage wires or a dead battery, I'd say the motor has a problem.

 

[4x4man514]

Unless you are using some really small gage wires or a dead battery, I'd say the motor has a problem.

well it wasnt big. prolly 16 gauge. whatever i had laying around

 

[73azbronco]

thanks for the words of encouragement jeff! i need it this thing is trying me hard! lol.

do you remember where the ground issue was? this sounds like the same issue. the guy i talked to at painless told me the same thing about checking the socket. i havent checked that but all of this is brand new stuff. corrosion shouldnt be an isssue for me. and i tried swapping the side marker light with the blinker and the problem moved so im thinking the lights themselves should be fine.

thanks again!

So do this, take some jumper wires with alligator clips, wire a ground, a hot to motor see how it turns.

 

[Jeff10]

thanks for the words of encouragement jeff! i need it this thing is trying me hard! lol.

do you remember where the ground issue was? this sounds like the same issue. the guy i talked to at painless told me the same thing about checking the socket. i havent checked that but all of this is brand new stuff. corrosion shouldnt be an isssue for me. and i tried swapping the side marker light with the blinker and the problem moved so im thinking the lights themselves should be fine.

thanks again!

Hi Kevin,

If you can PM me your email address I will send you a manual that Eric with Painless sent me. It's not the Bronco-specific one. It specifically discussed the front parking lamps.

I believe that both turn signals had an issue with poor ground wire bonding to the grill. The second problem was with corrosion inside the right turn signal bulb socket... not a lot, but enough to cause problems.

Keep at it. You'll feel good when it's done.

Jeff

 

[ba123]

Ok so new battery. Voltage seems to look better. Not jumping around. I've tried checking ohms from negative post to every ground I can think of about 3.7 everywhere. Is that about right?

personally, I do not think 3.7 ohm resistance on your grounds is good for something you just put together. I say 0.5 maybe the max you should be and preferably 0.2. No reason to be any higher than that and you shouldn’t have to scuff paint for most grounds to get better than that. A tight bolt will do it, but no doubt scuffing and a little dielectric grease is the best thing to do.

I only scuffed the paint on my main body ground.

I also say you’re working on too many things.

1) Fix the grounds and get the reading lower everywhere.
2) get the engine to run and then worry about the other stuff. Sounds like that will help your sanity. You’re not gonna need your wipers if you can’t even drive it.

 

[4x4man514]

So do this, take some jumper wires with alligator clips, wire a ground, a hot to motor see how it turns.

i tried this. on the white wire it turns slowly. on the blue wire it wont turn and wires get hot really fast. im thinking the motor is bad

 

[4x4man514]

personally, I do not think 3.7 ohm resistance on your grounds is good for something you just put together. I say 0.5 maybe the max you should be and preferably 0.2. No reason to be any higher than that and you shouldn’t have to scuff paint for most grounds to get better than that. A tight bolt will do it, but no doubt scuffing and a little dielectric grease is the best thing to do.

I only scuffed the paint on my main body ground.

I also say you’re working on too many things.

1) Fix the grounds and get the reading lower everywhere.
2) get the engine to run and then worry about the other stuff. Sounds like that will help your sanity. You’re not gonna need your wipers if you can’t even drive it.

thanks ba! im not good with the electrical stuff so i didnt know what was good or bad. the best number i got was 2.5 and that was practically the end of my battery ground cable. ill check it again now that i have a little better understanding. i wonder if i had the multimeter setting right though. it seems 200 was the the lowest setting i saw. ill try to pull them apart and double check. i did use dieelectric grease though. i really dunno what else to do to get the grounds any lower

and you are right about to many things ive tried to dial it backsome so it wasnt so overwhelming. i startred on this cause i couldnt get the engine right lol im kinda back and forth. im gonna try to bump up my fuel pressure and see if that helps. if it doesnt ill prolly be pinballing to something else because i dunno what else to do with the engine.

 

[ba123]

Ok, think about it this way… take your multimeter, set it to ohms and touch the two leads together. You should get 0.0 resistance.

It’s directly connected and nothing interfering and nothing giving it any resistance and stopping any flow of electricity. Now, it you take your main battery negative lead from one end to the other, and you’re getting resistance, it’s either a bad cable, or bad connections at either end. You should see 0.0 still.

If you take that 0.0 connection and you connect it to first your starter bolt, and then a bare cleaned spot on your firewall, you might have 0.0-0.2 on the other side of the engine (assuming the starter area is clean) and on your firewall, you should see 0.0. If you measure from the battery negative to the body in back, you should see 0.0-0.2.

If you’re seeing any higher than that with doing those things, then there is a bad connection.

Also, dielectric grease does not conduct. It will not improve your connection. It’s purpose is too keep the elements out of a good connection once you have it.

Just tackle one issue at a time and check them off, but I’d figure out the grounds first.

Hope you’re successful soon!