Newbie -> Just Got My -NEW TO ME- Bronco Need help, advice, parts

[69broncofun]

Sweet ride you got there

 

[mytmouse75]

Sweet ride you got there

Thank you.
;D

It's getting there - a lot to go through/discover, like I just came across that the passengers front seat belt was not bolted in place. The person before me, had Just drilled a new hole ( no nut ) due to the way he (or she) had the Tuffy box installed . It's fixed now - using the stock mounting location. I just had to finagle the Tuffy box to make all work....

-TC

 

[mytmouse75]

I finally had my brother-in-law look/work on the Bronco with me. (He's a mechanic for the to state.) We gave the brakes a good bleeding again. And he also noticed that I the pedal was too low for the travel it needed. The "throw" of the low pedal was NOT allowing the master to engage fully/ all the way. So I'm back to having (what I think) is a high pedal. But now I'm having another problem - we noticed the brake lights randomly will not work unless I play with the switch/wires... I'm going to take a closer look at the wiring , but I believe I'll need a NEW brake light pedal switch....
Another problem I noticed, is the speedometer is not working. My Brother -in-law suggested just to get a new SPEEDOMETER CABLE along with a new GEAR to match the 33" tires... Saying that even if it did work, it probably wouldn't read right for the 33" tires. See attached picture, I believe I need the old type speedometer cable, I suppose... I have aftermarket gauges (not sure what kind - see pictures) , This has the 5.0 1991 302 EFI, but it seems to be the old cable direct to the gauge.

Oh and I finally got the ol girl inspected and is now ON THE ROAD - yahoo - FINALLY ! ;D
I noticed driving the family around with the C4 - 3 speed trans and 3.5 rear gears, she's doing about 25 hundred RPM @ about 55mph, does that seem about right? Not really a highway truck - huh?

Speedo cable and gauge:
https://goo.gl/photos/Hu6FikHYmtfZfJdK9

Latest work and first drive w/o family:
https://goo.gl/photos/WfgnDr8qmRdBFtF7A

Hope everyone has a Happy and SAFE Independence Day !


-TC

 

[tasker]

LOOKS LIKE A GREAT TIME!! glad to hear you are getting some road time in

 

[67RT]

What a great truck and nice family.

I couldn't help but notice the height of the kids heads and what they might hit in the unfortunate event of an accident. Those side boxes are high and the roll bar may be a candidate for some padding. The belts look great but may not prevent occupants from shifting laterally? Any thoughts from others?

 

[sprdv1]

Congrats on getting it on the road.. Have a great Holiday weekend!!

I finally had my brother-in-law look/work on the Bronco with me. (He's a mechanic for the to state.) We gave the brakes a good bleeding again. And he also noticed that I the pedal was too low for the travel it needed. The "throw" of the low pedal was NOT allowing the master to engage fully/ all the way. So I'm back to having (what I think) is a high pedal. But now I'm having another problem - we noticed the brake lights randomly will not work unless I play with the switch/wires... I'm going to take a closer look at the wiring , but I believe I'll need a NEW brake light pedal switch....
Another problem I noticed, is the speedometer is not working. My Brother -in-law suggested just to get a new SPEEDOMETER CABLE along with a new GEAR to match the 33" tires... Saying that even if it did work, it probably wouldn't read right for the 33" tires. See attached picture, I believe I need the old type speedometer cable, I suppose... I have aftermarket gauges (not sure what kind - see pictures) , This has the 5.0 1991 302 EFI, but it seems to be the old cable direct to the gauge.

Oh and I finally got the ol girl inspected and is now ON THE ROAD - yahoo - FINALLY ! ;D
I noticed driving the family around with the C4 - 3 speed trans and 3.5 rear gears, she's doing about 25 hundred RPM @ about 55mph, does that seem about right? Not really a highway truck - huh?

Speedo cable and gauge:
https://goo.gl/photos/Hu6FikHYmtfZfJdK9

Latest work and first drive w/o family:
https://goo.gl/photos/WfgnDr8qmRdBFtF7A

Hope everyone has a Happy and SAFE Independence Day !


-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

...The "throw" of the low pedal was NOT allowing the master to engage fully/ all the way. So I'm back to having (what I think) is a high pedal.

Got pics of the pedal height? Is it higher than you can adjust the clutch pedal to match? The clutch pedal has an rubber bumper or "up-stop" that is on an eccentric and can adjust the pedal height to match the brake pedal. But there's still a natural position that the brake pedal would have been in from the factory. Maybe not as ergonomically located as some vehicles, but they weren't too bad. Seems like the pedal pad is about 6" or so from the floor?
I forget but there is a specification for the clutch pedal that would help determine if your brake pedal is indeed too high, or if you're just not used to one like this.
Definitely worth figuring out though. Pedals that are not natural are not as safe to drive around with.

...we noticed the brake lights randomly will not work unless I play with the switch/wires... I'm going to take a closer look at the wiring , but I believe I'll need a NEW brake light pedal switch...

Very likely. This design is not as reliable as some others, but they did work decently enough. If yours is old, then likely it's just wearing out. Easy and inexpensive to fix.

My Brother -in-law suggested just to get a new SPEEDOMETER CABLE along with a new GEAR to match the 33" tires... Saying that even if it did work, it probably wouldn't read right for the 33" tires.

True on the reading, but with a non-stock gauge it might be slightly different anyway. Before you buy a new cable (kind of a pain to replace actually) just pull the end out of the transfer case and see if the gear is stripped or even connected.
Yes, you might need a new cable, but if it's just the gear you can save yourself a lot of work.
If you do have a busted cable, you can either get the whole thing, outer jacket and all, or just buy the center drive cable and slide it in your old housing. But if the old inner sleeve is messed up, the new cable isn't going to be much better after awhile.

And on that note, maybe just reach under the dash and verify that the cable is attached. And if it is, loosen the nut and drive it again. I've seen some that when the nut was tightened fully the mechanism was jammed up and would not let the speedo spin.

Worth a shot anyway.

I noticed driving the family around with the C4 - 3 speed trans and 3.5 rear gears, she's doing about 25 hundred RPM @ about 55mph, does that seem about right?

Hmm, not really. Either your tach is wrong, or your speedo is wrong (most likely at this point?), or you're sporting more in the 4.11 range.
So very likely you were going 65 and only the speedo was off. With 3.50 gears and an approximately 31.5" tire (fully weighted diameter) you'd be at about 2400-2500 rpm at 65 mph.
Or were you using a GPS to confirm?

Not really a highway truck - huh?

Well no, not really.;D But not because it's running 2500 rpm. That's LOW for a Bronco in stock trim. And not a very efficient engine speed unless it's a very finely tuned engine.
At anything below 2500 at 65 a carbureted and stock engine isn't happy pushing all that wind. Many of us are running down the freeway at closer to 3000 rpm with our lower gears. Can you imagine what the engine was turning with a stock Bronco running the 4.56 gear option with 28" tall tires! Now that was a screamer!

With a manual trans and those 33's and 3.50 gears, our rigs are very sluggish around town and trying to pull long steep hills. But these engines can run at 3500 rpm all day long. The only thing that really suffers is fuel economy.

Just for accuracy, measure the tires from the ground up in the rear to see what size they actually measure out at (not what's on the sidewall) and then re-calculate when you get the speedo fixed.

Have fun with the family. Those are some happy smiles coming from the back seat area!

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Thanks Paul,

Well first this is a Automatic C4 - so no clutch pedal to measure off of for the brake pedal height.

I'll take a look closer at the Speedo cable and gear - good point about the gear and checking at the gauge itself. I thought it DID work when I first road tested it before winter, but its been a while and my mind has been on fixing everything else.

Also this has a 1991 5.0 EFI Mustang 302. I was using my GPS for speed, as the speedo gauge isn't doing anything at all. Not sure if the tachometer is accurate or not, that's what I was going by. Beside gas gauge - used about 1/4 tank for prob. 60 + miles - if the gas gauge is accurate - lol ... Also I was trying to go by the sound of the motor - over the loud tires...
She's VERY strong low end - top end I didn't want to push her, not know what to expect (first few times out on road) and not knowing the RPM's)... Also noted by TWO black strips in my driveway....LOL;D

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Hah! Sounds peppy alright. Mine too.
I should get bigger tires just to keep some rubber on them instead of the pavement. If I give it a little too much, all I get is tire spin instead of quick acceleration. Makes scooting into traffic a little finickier, but still do'able.

So if your speed readout is correct (which GPS should be of course), with a C4 giving you probably a couple of extra hundred rpm from TC slippage, a set of 3.50's would give you about 2100-2200 rpm at 55. And with the ease with which you find leaving black marks on the driveway, you might double check your gearing. Just to be certain.

Also get a real-world measurement of the tires when you can. I'm always interested (even after all these years) to see what a tire actually rolls at on any given vehicle.
My 31" BFG's are closer to 29.5 rolling diameter. Really gives my 4.56's something to bark about!

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Ok, I just measured my 33" GoodYear Kevlar M/T Wranglers, and they seem to come in around 32" - 32, 1/8th to get technical...
They'll be down to 32" soon if keep leaving those black streaks - LOL ;D
See pics:
https://goo.gl/photos/duwKfDWHYHycRbiBA

How do I check the gearing , if it's 3.50's or 4.11's? I've been just guessing that they were 3.50's, not sure if I believe the dealer - if that's what they said it was when I bought it anyways.

If it's 4.11's , what's involved with changing ratio for better highway driving and about how much to expect to spend? I suppose that's cheaper and easier than changing to AOD and since I just put in the new shifter for the C4. I would have to change the front diff. too, to match - right?

Unless my tachometer is just off / not accurate....???....%)

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok, I just measured my 33" GoodYear Kevlar M/T Wranglers, and they seem to come in around 32" - 32, 1/8th to get technical...

That's pretty darn good. Most are way more off than that.
What air pressures are you running? Definitely don't want a tire like that running on it's max rated pressure if that's where they are. But every rig is different.
Not that pressures would make a big difference with a tire like that either though. They're probably pretty stiff, so even at 10 psi you probably would just barely see them get smaller!

How do I check the gearing , if it's 3.50's or 4.11's? I've been just guessing that they were 3.50's, not sure if I believe the dealer - if that's what they said it was when I bought it anyways.

A few ways to do it.
1. You can pop off the front diff cover to change the gear lube (or have you done that already?) and count the teeth. The ring gear devided by the pinion gear will give you the ratio. Like 41/10= 4.10 (front and rear will almost always be a point off or so.
2. Count the number of turns of the driveshaft per turn of a rear wheel. This method is usually the go-to for those checking. But it's finicky in that you don't always get exactly what you expect due to the differential action.
If you have an open diff it helps to have a helper to turn the opposite side tire at the same time you turn the other. Either that, or just count the number of turns and double it.
A locker or limited slip should give you a reasonably accurate calculation with just one wheel spinning by hand.
3. Or, verify that the tach is accurate somehow. Since you know the speed precisely, if you know the engine rpm precisely you can figure out the exact ratio.
At 55 mph and 32.1" tires, with 3.50 gears you would be just turning 2100 rpm. With 4.11's you would be turning 2400-2500 rpm.

If it's 4.11's , what's involved with changing ratio for better highway driving and about how much to expect to spend?

A lot and a lot. But first you have to make many decisions.
Will you ever be running an overdrive trans?
What speed to you want your engine to run, and why?
Do you ever intend to go off road?
How sluggish are you willing to put up with at stop lights?
How strong does your engine run now?

As for cost, depending on your snowball quotient, if you're able to curtail your desire to have all the best toys, it'll likely cost you $1100 bucks to have both done at some shops. Maybe as little as $900, or as much as $1400 depending. In Medford I'd bet you could find someone at the middle price to the lower end of the scale.
If you start going gaga over the latest and greatest lockers and limited slips, add another $1000 to $1500 to the cost.
So, not so much cheaper than a trans swap, eh?;D

The cost is high because you have to do both or forgo four wheel drive at all.
But with Broncos I would always experiment with the rear only first. This way you can do the less expensive end, and if you decide your gear choice was a mistake you are not out for both ends.
If you're mechanically inclined but don't want to tackle the whole thing, you could save a ton by removing the center section and taking it in to the gear shop.

I suppose that's cheaper and easier than changing to AOD and since I just put in the new shifter for the C4. I would have to change the front diff. too, to match - right?

See above...
Definitely change just the rear end first, and you can save enough to go to plan-B if you don't like the change.

Unless my tachometer is just off / not accurate....???....%)

Not sure how to test that theory, but I guess it's easy enough at the lower rpm levels at least, by using a secondary tachometer. Perhaps a hand-held unit in an old Dwell-Tach meter perhaps.
But there are probably some pretty cool tools for checking that.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

I tried checking the ratio like you said, by the turning of the tire method. Seemed to be the quickest and easiest way. By having the rear up on jacks, transmission in "D", and I marked the driveshaft. I then rotated the tire, noting the start position (I used the tire valve as a reference point. And I'm only counting just a bit over 2 turns of the driveshaft...???...
So if I double that like you suggested, it's probably like 4.10, 4.11 - right ?

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Correct.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

Still having Brake light issues - Even after changing the brake pedal switch (with a new "Standard" brand switch), I still notice the brake lights not coming on right away when they should. As I start to press the brake pedal the brakes are engaging (I'm starting to stop) but the lights don't come on until I press further/harder. I know it's been mentioned that this old style switch is known to be not the best type of switch, but is there a way to (I don't know) change the spring to a lighter spring, or a better solution to a different brake switch ?

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Does yours have the spacer in-between the pin on the pedal and the opening in the switch? If I remember if that is missing your switch will close late like you're describing.

I think it's basically just a plastic ring thingy that sits in there.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

This is all I got
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6VMjT3ETxzg5S6WA2

Do you mean a plastic collar around the post that's coming off the side of the pedal?
Where would I get a replacement ?

To me it seems that the spring in the switch is just too strong. Not allowing contacts inside the switch to touch until you make more pressure, pressing on the pedal further.

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

Nah, maybe I was just remembering that ring you can see in your first pic. Inside the switch at the pedal bracket itself. Maybe it's permanent(?) but I thought I remembered them being separate. Some were steel, some were plastic. Yours looks like steel, but it's hard to tell.

The pin that the switch rides on should push directly on the flapper of the switch. Sounds like your brakes react pretty quickly.
Have you described what your brake system is set up like? I'm just not remembering how these switches are set up it feels like. The last one I messed with was already a few years ago now. Sounds like my memory is fading...

If all this messing about just doesn't work, you can go to the local parts store and get a switch that is the plunger style you can substitute instead.
You will have to make your own mount, and decide whether you want it to energize when pressed/compressed, or when it extends. Depends on where you're going to mount it, but the few I've done have all been extension types that I mounted against the pedal beam so that when pressed, it moved farther away from the switch's plunger.

Even though I've personally never had a problem with the Ford style (knock on wood!), any time there has been an issue I've just replaced the stock one with one of the plunger types.
Kind of a pain sometimes, but they work great.

Sorry I don't have a part number for you. My local guys always know the parts right off their head and come out of the back of the store with a couple of choices every time.
Others have used them as well, so maybe someone will pipe in with the number.

Paul

 

[mytmouse75]

My Brakes are VERY easy / touchy - very little effort is needed to apply the brakes. Leaving very little resistance on the brake rod for the brake switch to activate (with that heavy/hard spring in the brake switch). It's almost like TOO much power assist for the power brakes. When the engine is off, or when my brother-in-law & I tested driving without the brake booster (when we were testing the brakes), the brake switch/lights work as they should. But No power brakes, requiring A LOT of effort to brake/stop the truck. This is what I've been trying to dial in - to get to a more "NORMAL" pedal/braking feel - WITH power bakes.
--> This truck has an Extra vacuum canister/tank coming from the engine, then to the vacuum brake booster. I'm wondering with having this EXTRA vacuum it's causing this? There are NO other vacuum assist/driven items on the truck (like AC controls, vacuum locking Diff actuators, etc.). I don't know why it's there or - if it's even needed ?

See Extra vacuum tank/canister, master brake booster:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qTuEcNaJmhMQOVxt2


-TC

 

[mytmouse75]

Have you described what your brake system is set up like?
Paul

I have Front Disk brake conversion Caliper/pads 77 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4, Rotors 76-77 Bronco, Rear drums 11"x 1.75" / Big bearing, front disk/rear drum portioning valve, Vacuum Power bakes.... With that extra Vacuum canister/tank (for some reason????)....

-TC

 

[DirtDonk]

My Brakes are VERY easy / touchy - very little effort is needed to apply the brakes. ...

Well you'll be one of the very few then. Most with vacuum boosters aren't too impressed. Be interested to see a pic of your booster in case it's different. More likely it's just a better performing unit, or you have smaller tires?

--> This truck has an Extra vacuum canister/tank coming from the engine, then to the vacuum brake booster. I'm wondering with having this EXTRA vacuum it's causing this?
... I don't know why it's there or - if it's even needed ?

Not likely, but it might be increasing it's efficiency.
With an extra reservoir (a good thing actually) you only increase capacity/reserve, not the actual pressure. So 18 inches of manifold vacuum is still going to be the same 18 inches in the booster and the reservoir. There's just more of it to pull from before it's depleted.
So you should not feel more assist per push of the pedal. You just don't run out as quickly if your engine dies or you're under full throttle and need brakes.
Those with bigger cams often install an extra tank to hold some additional volume to pull from for times when the engine is just not producing enough to work a vacuum booster efficiently. I don't know if a low vacuum signal (say, 13 inches) takes longer to bring a booster back up when it's depleted, but very likely it does.
May be other technical reasons for it as well that I'm not aware of.

///With that extra Vacuum canister/tank (for some reason????)...

Just what was said. Unless it's totally in the way then, I'd leave it intact. It certainly doesn't seem to be hurting anything in the braking department!
What about that engine? Is it a hi-po setup with low vacuum by any chance?

For the lights, I would do what was discussed for sure then. Forget the old Ford switch that our rigs used and convert over to the more familiar plunger type. It's still a "Ford" piece, as they used them on other vehicles, as did GM and likely Mopar as well.

Paul