please help with upper hose routing and shroud mounting-missing parts after long hiatus?

[bcmbcmbcm]

Hey folks,

After the engine was out and stripped to parts for a full repaint, I think I may be missing parts or have the wrong ones. This is a 1993 Fox mustang setup with reverse rotation water pump. EEC-IV with Wild Horses harness. Prior to removal the spacing was all good and the plumbing was spot on. Now it looks FUBAR. A stock Bronco upper hose wont fit. Did we perhaps mix up the wrong thermostat housing/water outlet? The radiator is the stock 74 brass one that has been re-cored. Am I missing mounts for the stock fan shroud? If so, is this even available? I attached a pic of it in, as well as a pic of the closest to stock which is a WH brass radiator from the site.

Getting close, folks! Just need to clean up my incompetence in the area of inventorying parts!

Brett

 

[DirtDonk]

I don't think you mixed up the thermostat housing. I think the high-angle one is the only one that fits with that setup, so you can't just bolt on an old original 45° housing and be done.
The first pic is your original setup? There's no way that's a stock hose, and appears to be the typical mixing of two hoses with a metal or plastic splice tube in the middle to get the angles to play nice together.
I suppose it's possible that it IS a stock upper hose, and simply uses the splice to rotate to a more favorable angle on both ends. But it just does not look quite right with that in mind.
Maybe message 904Bronco here as he's done a ton of them. Including mine, which I hate to admit I don't even know which hose is being used at this point!
It's a spliced hose for sure, but does not look quite the same as yours. I posted up pics of it here just recently though, so I'll see if I can go back on my phone and find it. The Explorer setup I'm using is different than yours, but not a huge difference in this "thermostat-to-radiator" area I don't think.

Regarding the radiator, I'd say you're correct that the one in the pic is a stock, or stock-ish style radiator.
The mounting points for the stock shroud are two holes on the top flange and two holes on the bottom flange.
You can see them in the pic you got from our site, and I believe I can see on the top strap/flange the welded on nuts used with the factory radiator.

Are you replacing it with the same radiator, or a new one?
How is the lower hose?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I don't have one handy of the same angle your pic is taken from, but this is looking from the other side and it appears to me that they are not the same hose.
But you can see where the shroud is bolted to the radiator. Obviously it's not a stock shroud, but the holes are in the stock locations.


And yes, you can buy a new stock shroud. Or at least you could before all this crap!
Stock shape and size shrouds are available in aluminum, steel and fiberglass(?) like this one: Stock Fan Shroud
I don't know that they are actually in stock at the moment, but at least they are generally available or we would not still show it on the website.

Paul

 

[bcmbcmbcm]

Thank you. Yes, the picture on the left is the setup after it is put back together. That spliced hose I do not like-the folks at the shop are saying a stock EB hose will not fit. It does not make any sense-that should be the stock EB radiator and thermostat housing. I can't figure that out.

The radiator on the picture on the left is the nice original EB radiator. But is it missing any parts to hold the shroud on? I am comparing it to the WH pic on the right-it looks that way. If so, can I buy just that missing piece? I hate to shell out 5 bills for a new radiator for a missing bracket-and of course I want to keep as much original as I can.

 

[bcmbcmbcm]

Thanks again. In other words it looks like I am missing some sort of elongated L Bracket on the top of the radiator, no? And why would the stock hose fit before it was taken apart and not now? I really want to try to find the stock shroud..it is somewhere. I don't like buying stuff twice especially when replacing original stuff that worked. I am not sure what type of fiberglass/lead/asbestos mix the stock shroud was made of but it looked like it was good for another 50 years.

 

[dmoses42]

First thing I notice is you don't have any upper radiator mounts, your radiator is zip-tied to the core support. Not sure if that is the whole problem, but its part of it.

 

[bcmbcmbcm]

First thing I notice is you don't have any upper radiator mounts, your radiator is zip-tied to the core support. Not sure if that is the whole problem, but its part of it.

Yeah I know . Mounts were lost and I bought another set. For some reason they have not yet been put on. I figured that was what was part of what was throwing it out of alignment

 

[DirtDonk]

No, the mount/clamps have nothing to do with the shroud. The shroud mounts directly to a Bronco radiator. Period.
The holes for mounting are part of the top and bottom "straps" which are part of the radiator. Yours looks to have the holes, so there are no additional brackets/bits/pieces needed to just bolt a stock shroud right on.
You just need the four screws...

The reason that the stock hose does not work is because you don't have a stock engine. Has nothing to do with the radiator at this point. It's all about the engine.
Your later model engine with serpentine accessory drive system has different clearances and needs as a stock Bronco engine from years before. I can't see yours directly, but they usually utilize a different thermostat housing with a more vertical hose position. This one piece all by itself guarantees that a stock hose will not work.
If you are able to fit an original thermostat housing, great. But make sure that if you do the hose won't plow straight into something else, or that if it does clear the immediate area, will not hit another accessory or the fan further to the driver's side.
I think it's been tried and found not to work. But I have not tried it myself, so best of luck if you have the parts and want to give it a shot.

But looking again at your earlier pic, it appears to me that the hose that fit originally is mounted to a later model vertical thermostat housing. It also appears that the hose was modified to work.
To get the same result you may have to do the same things you did originally.

Paul

 

[bcmbcmbcm]

Thank you Paul. Yes, I double checked the radiator and the holes are there. Only problem now is that we cant find the original piece!

Before it was all taken apart a stock radiator hose fit. It was a stock thermostat housing and atock radiator on a stock 302 block. The front serpentine setup is all stock 5.0 Fox Mustang. This is the original RJM type setup witht the fordfuelinjection.com articles. The old BCB setup used this too with the multi-steer bracket, reverse rotation water pump and Fox Stang Serp. with stock EB radiator hose thermostat housing and radiator.For the life of me I just cant figure out why its not fitting now. Only difference is the block is .040 pver on the inside and the engine bay is clean and painted.

 

[DirtDonk]

… the engine bay is clean and painted.

Well there’s your problem right there.
After a good cleaning nothing will ever be the same!

 

[ba123]

As far as your hoses, you need an EFI swap radiator and a stock MUSTANG hose.

The reverse rotation water pump calls for the inlet and outlets reversed and the inlet on the pass side instead of the drivers. You could leave it alone, but you'd need modded hoses. I thought WH sold one but don't see it now.

You could find one or mod your own like the pic above or you could take your radiator to a radiator shop and have them swap the tanks...I don't remember exactly but that's what I did when I did my first EFI transplant. Or if you want a radiator that has been swapped for cheap, I have the one I had rebuilt that way and used for less than a year (but been sitting ever since), or there are even some extremely cheap foreign made radiators that are set up correctly on ebay that might get you by until you get everything else figured out.

You could also use a lonog flex hose--the metal type that holds its shape (that's what I did years ago as well, nobody knew you could use a Mustang hose back then).

 

[bcmbcmbcm]

As far as your hoses, you need an EFI swap radiator and a stock MUSTANG hose.

The reverse rotation water pump calls for the inlet and outlets reversed and the inlet on the pass side instead of the drivers. You could leave it alone, but you'd need modded hoses. I thought WH sold one but don't see it now.

You could find one or mod your own like the pic above or you could take your radiator to a radiator shop and have them swap the tanks...I don't remember exactly but that's what I did when I did my first EFI transplant. Or if you want a radiator that has been swapped for cheap, I have the one I had rebuilt that way and used for less than a year (but been sitting ever since), or there are even some extremely cheap foreign made radiators that are set up correctly on ebay that might get you by until you get everything else figured out.

You could also use a lonog flex hose--the metal type that holds its shape (that's what I did years ago as well, nobody knew you could use a Mustang hose back then).

Thank you. Are you sure? This was working before with the EFI swap and a stock Bronco hose and reverse rotation water pump from BC. The BC reverse rotation water pump was supposed to have the same inlets/outlets as a stock EB and would line up to the stock EB radiator. In my case now it is the upper hose that has the issue-and this connects to the thermostat housing. The lower connection to the radiator connects to the water pump and we don't see any issues with that connection.

 

[ba123]

I thought BC just sold the regular Flowkooler reverse wp.

What’s the number, any idea?

If you have a serpentine setup, I’m pretty sure it has to be a reverse flow water pump…and also not really sure it mattters which pump since the radiator attaches to the intake manifold and if you have a mustang engine, it’s not in the same place as the stock bronco unless I’m confused, which is possible. That’s why we all had to change our radiators, or add a longer hose to get over to the other side.

 

[DirtDonk]

There's a difference between "reverse flow" and "reverse rotation" in pumps. A serpentine pump is simply reverse rotation and not reverse flow, and neither one requires the inlet to be on any particular side as long as the rest of the system is designed for it.
Even when our Broncos were made and they, and all the other Ford vehicles used a "standard rotation" pump using V-belts, the pumps were available with inlets on the driver's or passenger side.
Just that the Bronco was one of the very few that utilized the passenger side, even though they all rotated the same direction.

Which direction the coolant flows, or which direction the pump rotates, is accompanied by the proper design impeller, proper orientation of the ports in the aluminum timing cover, and whatever else is needed.
A true reverse flow system is actually putting the coolant into the engine block in the opposite location as a standard flow. Such as one cooling the block first, then the heads. Versus cooling the heads first and then the rest of the block.
I think I've got that at least mostly right!

So you can't tell a reverse from a standard rotation pump externally by looking at the inlet side.

Paul

 

[ba123]

There's a difference between "reverse flow" and "reverse rotation" in pumps. A serpentine pump is simply reverse rotation and not reverse flow, and neither one requires the inlet to be on any particular side as long as the rest of the system is designed for it.
Even when our Broncos were made and they, and all the other Ford vehicles used a "standard rotation" pump using V-belts, the pumps were available with inlets on the driver's or passenger side.
Just that the Bronco was one of the very few that utilized the passenger side, even though they all rotated the same direction.

Which direction the coolant flows, or which direction the pump rotates, is accompanied by the proper design impeller, proper orientation of the ports in the aluminum timing cover, and whatever else is needed.
A true reverse flow system is actually putting the coolant into the engine block in the opposite location as a standard flow. Such as one cooling the block first, then the heads. Versus cooling the heads first and then the rest of the block.
I think I've got that at least mostly right!

So you can't tell a reverse from a standard rotation pump externally by looking at the inlet side.

Paul

Thanks for filling in my misinformation.

Regardless, it doesn’t even matter which pump you put on, you could not use a stock Bronco radiator hose with a Mustang 5.0 engine. The outlet is just plain in the wrong place for it. The outlet is on the intake.It’s on the intake for both, but not the exact same.

 

[DirtDonk]

Definitely. I don't remember anyone ever using a stock outlet and a stock hose on this setup before.
But bcmbcmbcm, if you say the stock original outlet fit before while actually using this serpentine setup, then nothing says you can't try it again.
I was a little confused by what you were saying though. It sounded at one point like you were using this exact setup before, but then it sounded like you had the stock hose before you changed to the Mustang serpentine setup. Now that you have the Mustang setup, it won't fit.

So which is it? Based on your earlier picture, you absolutely do NOT have a stock hose or thermostat housing/outlet. The only difference from then to now then is that you say that you don't like the spliced hose.
Ok, I get that (though I have no problems with spliced hoses obviously) but not wanting a spliced hose won't make a stock one fit.
There was obviously a reason that you had a custom hose setup previously. My guess is that it was because a stock one didn't fit then, like it doesn't now.

You can still try a stock outlet and see if a stock hose will fit. But I'm thinking you'll have fitment issues right out of the gate.
But as said, I never tried it so can't tell you exactly what fits and what hits from personal experience.

Do you not have that hose setup at all anymore? If you still have it, at least you can get the engine up and running with it. Then go on the hunt for a better solution.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[904Bronco]

Could you have installed the upper hose backwards, as you say it fit before, but not now? Random thought here...

 

[DirtDonk]

But as usual, a good one!

 

[toddz69]

Could you take some pics from the front of your truck so we can see for sure what thermostat housing you have? And what your water pump looks like, etc.? There's a lot of confusing information and opinions in this thread and it's hard to keep it all straight!

I ran the stock 5.0 serpentine setup for about 8 years with a stock radiator - it shouldn't be too tough to figure this all out!

Thanks,
Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

This is the reverse-rotation pump with the pass side inlet:

https://www.tuffstuffperformance.co...owder-coat-1432crev.html?ref=category:1267368

Todd Z.