Replacing heim steering parts going back to stock

[DirtDonk]

And sorry I haven’t gotten an answer for you. I thought I’d have an answer for you by now.
I’m not in the office to go grab some quick measurements for you myself, so I reached out and, for once, never heard back! Then, of course, I got sidetracked. As usual…
But the advice to give a call into WH is a good one. Someone can tell you the measurements of the two sleeves we have and if they’d be compatible with what you need.

 

[lars]

I guess getting sleeves that would allow me to get “OEM” parts from one of the distributors like Tom’s off road or LMC or a local parts house like Napa is a no go then. I’m just trying to keep it simple.

Not without replacing the knuckles. The OEM Ford tapers are a lot smaller than the GM ones so it could be done. Theoretically someone could make the conceptually exact taper adapter bushings that were linked above so you could go back to using Ford TREs, but there's probably not much of a market for them. Honestly the various 1 ton GM conversions are pretty simple as well. And if you use quality (I like Moog) TREs they last forever. A stickler for originality would spot that the GM parts weren't OEM but most wouldn't notice and once you are set up to use them they are off the shelf, durable, whatever.

 

[Jdgephar]

Not without replacing the knuckles. The OEM Ford tapers are a lot smaller than the GM ones so it could be done. Theoretically someone could make the conceptually exact taper adapter bushings that were linked above so you could go back to using Ford TREs, but there's probably not much of a market for them. Honestly the various 1 ton GM conversions are pretty simple as well. And if you use quality (I like Moog) TREs they last forever. A stickler for originality would spot that the GM parts weren't OEM but most wouldn't notice and once you are set up to use them they are off the shelf, durable, whatever.

Wild Horses sells an adjustable tie rod with replaceable ends on each side. They use the GM tie rod ends. You should be able to use that with the barnes 4wd inserts I linked to earlier. Replacement tie rod ends (and the adjustment sleeves) can then be purchased locally if needed.

 

[ntsqd]

Jdgephar's inserts and Lars' linkage links are the parts to make all of this work. The holes in the steering arms need to be 7/8" for the inserts to fit, so will need the ability to drill them from the 3/4" ID that they likely are now.

 

[Tamnative3]

Those are Ford knuckles based on your description of the calipers etc. 76/77 EB knuckles put the end of the steering arms pretty close to the wheel. If they aren't, then they are probably F-150 knuckles, someone else can chime in with the year. Or maybe they are Duff knuckles, yet another permutation. All Ford variants.
Whatever.
Drill them out to 7/8" and use the sleeves linked in post #6. Lots of vendors sell steering linkage kits ready to use for EB's, with GM 1 ton tie rod ends, like this for example: https://barnes4wd.com/products/over-the-knuckle-one-ton-y-link-steering-kit (welding required). I've been running the bushings plus a steering kit like that since forever. Works fine.

Did you use the stock pitman arm? I am considering using the set up that’s in the link above but was wondering about a 7/8” hole in the stock pitman arm .

 

[jamesroney]

The numbers aren’t necessarily FORD RGM. They could be Dana/Spicer.

I think that the C37936 and C37937 are the same knuckles as the 620169R and 620170L

I am inclined to think there might be a difference in Ackerman but otherwise they are very similar. Application shows 77-79 F100 etc. (These are NOT the unicorn F150 4x4 club cab flat tops.)

Pics here.

 

[jamesroney]

And sorry I haven’t gotten an answer for you. I thought I’d have an answer for you by now.
I’m not in the office to go grab some quick measurements for you myself, so I reached out and, for once, never heard back! Then, of course, I got sidetracked. As usual…
But the advice to give a call into WH is a good one. Someone can tell you the measurements of the two sleeves we have and if they’d be compatible with what you need.

The two Wild H part numbers are WH2380 and WH2382. You might have some other ones, but those are the two that come up on the search. The WH sleeves are different than the RuffStuff / TeraFlex / Everyone-else sleeves. The WH ones are "taper-taper" or cones. (maybe its a frustrum...) I have never found the taper-taper sleeves anywhere but Wild H, and they have saved me plenty of times.

Nobody knows the correct taper for anything, because nobody knows how to measure them, or what to call them. So you get a whole bunch of "small" and "large" tapers, and then you get the "F150-taper" and the "Early Bronco" taper. And of course the Jeep nomenclature of "JK-taper" and "TJ-taper" and the GM "1-ton TRE taper" which is almost as useless as the TeraFlex "Large" taper. It's all idiotic.

Funny thing is that all the tapers are the same. They are all 1.5 inch per foot, or 7.1 degree tapers. It's just how deep you bore them. The GM TRE is the TeraFlex JK, which is nominally 3/4 major, (.760") and 5/8 minor (.660") This fits the Moog ES2234R series tie rod, and is the universal GM high steer, TRO, 1-ton, etc. They are all 7/8 nominal OD bushings.

The OP @Tamnative3 has a couple of choices, but at the end of the day, you have to bore them thru and put a tapered insert in them. So you need to figure out which tie rod ends you are going to run, get the right inserts for them, and then drill your knuckles to fit them. I will warn you that if you just drill the knuckle 7/8 thru, and install the tapered sleeve...you MUST counterbore the top surface (or bottom if you are tie rod under) to allow the head of the insert to sit flush. If the bushing head sits proud of the surface, then the stud will not protrude enough to get a cotter pin in it. I have done it "in-frame" many times, as long as you are drilling the top. But counterboring from the bottom will require a feat of strength and talent. Do yourself a favor and clamp your knuckles against the stop when drilling. Bad things happen when the knuckle starts to flop around when you are drilling.

 

[Jdgephar]

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threads/more-info-on-tie-rod-ends-than-anyone-asked-for.309148/

 

[Tamnative3]

If I use the 7/8” sleeves and use the 1 ton setup that’s in Barnes 4wd lists will there be a problem drilling the pitman arm as it is not as big as the knuckles.

 

[ntsqd]

I'll assume that it has a straight walled 3/4" hole in it now? Then opening the hole up to 7/8" is only moving the ID of the hole 1/16" closer to the outer sides of the pitman arm. Slightly less than a points spark-plug gap. Usually that isn't enough to worry about. Can you measure the width at the hole in question?

 

[Tamnative3]

I'll assume that it has a straight walled 3/4" hole in it now? Then opening the hole up to 7/8" is only moving the ID of the hole 1/16" closer to the outer sides of the pitman arm. Slightly less than a points spark-plug gap. Usually that isn't enough to worry about. Can you measure the width at the hole in question?

Yes it has a 3/4” hole just like the knuckles So I assume that what ever I do to them I will have to do the same with the pitman. I agree that 1/16” isn’t much I just was wondering what everyone else does when go to a 1 ton set up like Barnes4wd has.

 

[jamesroney]

Yes it has a 3/4” hole just like the knuckles So I assume that what ever I do to them I will have to do the same with the pitman. I agree that 1/16” isn’t much I just was wondering what everyone else does when go to a 1 ton set up like Barnes4wd has.

A heavy duty pitman arm is only about $60 brand new. That’s for either factory style, or dropped. The sleeve is going to cost you $20 or so, and some machining ans some work to install it. and when you are done…it won’t be BETTER than a new one.

There is no way that I would re-purpose the arm. Just sell that one, and buy new.

 

[Tamnative3]

I think that the C37936 and C37937 are the same knuckles as the 620169R and 620170L

I am inclined to think there might be a difference in Ackerman but otherwise they are very similar. Application shows 77-79 F100 etc. (These are NOT the unicorn F150 4x4 club cab flat tops.)

Pics here.

The picture on the left is what they look like.

 

[Tamnative3]

I think that the C37936 and C37937 are the same knuckles as the 620169R and 620170L

I am inclined to think there might be a difference in Ackerman but otherwise they are very similar. Application shows 77-79 F100 etc. (These are NOT the unicorn F150 4x4 club cab flat tops.)

Pics here.

The picture of the one on the left looks like what I have.

 

[jamesroney]

The picture of the one on the left looks like what I have.

Yes. 76-79 F100. Did you have a question?