New gear reduction starter install

[BruiserOutdoors]

Got 'em, thanks. Good pics. I'll post one or two of them up here for others to see. If it lets me download them from Dropbox that is.
But knowing only what I know, I don't see any possible purpose for the green wire to be connected to both the main power stud (constant 12v power) AND the smaller, apparently control connection.
It's Friday, so if you have not already, I would call Mean Green right now and find out what they have to say. If not, you'll miss out on two more days before you can ask them again.

Have you tried connecting the battery to power at this point? If not, I would at least touch the cables to the battery and find out if the starter cranks immediately upon connecting the battery.
Obviously, it should not. But if not, then why not?

Paul

Just now seeing this. I will try both of your recommendations!

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry too, that I forgot to post the pic!
So here is one (image #7 in your file) showing the Green (trigger?) wire connected to both the large stud and to the small connector:

My guess, just from my limited knowledge, is that as soon as you connect power to the battery, your starter will start to spin.
I've seen starters that had jumper wires between solenoids and motors, but never one quite like this. That is, unless you can find a third connection point for the trigger wire and the Green wire on yours is just for other duties.
If there is no other connection point, then my guess is that your Red wire should replace the Green wire at the small connector. And that the Green wire should be eliminated.

Any word directly from Mean Green yet?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I side recommendation. Your positive battery cable can be "enhanced" slightly in my opinion.
You're obviously versed in shrink tubing, so next time you have a chance, remove the battery cable from the starter relay and slip some shrink tube over the end, to seal the crimped on lug.
These are generally very good reliable cables and connections. Eventually though, the outer jacket shrinks, or is compromised in some other way, exposing the inner conductor strands to the outside world. Using some shrink tube to seal this junction should go a long way for getting your full life out of the store-bought cables.

Paul

 

[ba123]

My guess, just from my limited knowledge, is that as soon as you connect power to the battery, your starter will start to spin.
I've seen starters that had jumper wires between solenoids and motors, but never one quite like this. That is, unless you can find a third connection point for the trigger wire and the Green wire on yours is just for other duties.
If there is no other connection point, then my guess is that your Red wire should replace the Green wire at the small connector. And that the Green wire should be eliminated.

Correct, you only want that jumper wire if you're using an outside switch/solenoid.

If you want your switch to activate the starter directly without the external switch, you eliminate that jumper wire and wire the your start signal to the integrated solenoid and battery cable always hot.

powermaster had some good instructions regarding this:
https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/pwm-9604.pdf

 

[DirtDonk]

Good info!
So you can have it either way. I should have seen the obvious, and think either way is fine.

1. You can leave the Green jumper where it is, disconnect your 10ga Red wire from the starter side of the fender mounted relay (tape over it's end), move your large starter cable back over there where it was originally, then leave the Green jumper wire in place.

2. You can leave the heavy starter cable just as it is, remove the Green jumper completely, and attach your Red 10ga wire from the starter side of the fender mounted relay directly to your secondary connector (where the Green wire is now) and leave the two connectors at the starter completely separate from one another.

paul

 

[BruiserOutdoors]

Sorry too, that I forgot to post the pic!
So here is one (image #7 in your file) showing the Green (trigger?) wire connected to both the large stud and to the small connector:
View attachment 920600
My guess, just from my limited knowledge, is that as soon as you connect power to the battery, your starter will start to spin.
I've seen starters that had jumper wires between solenoids and motors, but never one quite like this. That is, unless you can find a third connection point for the trigger wire and the Green wire on yours is just for other duties.
If there is no other connection point, then my guess is that your Red wire should replace the Green wire at the small connector. And that the Green wire should be eliminated.

Any word directly from Mean Green yet?

Paul

I wish I would have seen these responses before I hit the power wire to the battery last night. As you expected, it spun the starter at the touch of power. I will take a look at the powermaster instructions and get it dailed.

is there a downside to doing option #1? What is the preferred method?

 

[ba123]

If you have a stock ford ignition switch, then option 1 is preferred as option 2 puts more load on that switch.

 

[DirtDonk]

Actually, either option has the same amount of load on the factory ignition switch.
The key here, is leaving the fender mounted relay in the circuit. Since the ignition switch is for energizing the relay only, then no matter how you fire up the starter, he load is the same on the ignition switch.
So I say wire it whichever way is easier for you.

Option 1 probably involves the least amount of rewire.
Simply moving the big cable over to the other stud on the starter relay is pretty straightforward.
Capping off, or cutting the existing ends off of the red wire, and leaving it in the loom, is pretty straightforward.

Or heck, leave the red wire connected at both ends.
If it’s on the starter stud, and if it’s on the starter side of the relay stud, all it is is a supplement to the large starter cable.
It will never take its place as a substitute, but at least it’s safely out of the way if it’s used.

 

[ba123]

Actually, either option has the same amount of load on the factory ignition switch.
The key here, is leaving the fender mounted relay in the circuit. Since the ignition switch is for energizing the relay only, then no matter how you fire up the starter, he load is the same on the ignition switch.
So I say wire it whichever way is easier for you.

Option 1 probably involves the least amount of rewire.
Simply moving the big cable over to the other stud on the starter relay is pretty straightforward.
Capping off, or cutting the existing ends off of the red wire, and leaving it in the loom, is pretty straightforward.

Or heck, leave the red wire connected at both ends.
If it’s on the starter stud, and if it’s on the starter side of the relay stud, all it is is a supplement to the large starter cable.
It will never take its place as a substitute, but at least it’s safely out of the way if it’s used.

Option 1 where you leave the green jumper, you're using the Ford solenoid switch.

In option 2'youre not, that's the point of how these were made better if your ignition switch can handle slightly more. Your ignition switch sends the signal to the on board solenoid and tells the starter to turn.

It's a much better system, in my own opinion, and how I have my own set up. I hate those ugly fenderwell solenoid switches.

Starter is always hot. Ignition tells the starter to run when it gets the signal. Directly.

 

[DirtDonk]

In my options above, the Ford starter relay is used in both instances. That doesn’t change, so the load on the switch doesn’t change.
Only the orientation of the wires. The wires between the fender mounted starter relay, and the starter motor and solenoid.

 

[ba123]

In my options above, the Ford starter relay is used in both instances. That doesn’t change, so the load on the switch doesn’t change.
Only the orientation of the wires. The wires between the fender mounted starter relay, and the starter motor and solenoid.

Ahh, I see what you're saying...use the starter the way it was meant to but keep letting the ford solenoid switch tell it to turn.

I still hate those ugly switches but yes, that would work as well and no more load on the ignition switch.

 

[DirtDonk]

A lot of people hate them. Specially in a case like yours, where you’re doing a lot of custom wiring and, if I’m not mistaken, hiding much of it.
But the opposite is true for me. I don’t hate it much, and I like a nice convenient junction point, and an easy to replace component.
It also keeps the rest of the power wires out of harms way.

The cure for that, though, is to simply not do it like Chevy did it, and don’t put all the other power wires for the car down on the starter. Where they get heat from the headers, oil from oil leaks, and you don’t always notice if they start to come loose.
I’m guessing you’re using a power junction point somewhere else? Don’t remember what you said you were doing about that.

 

[ba123]

A lot of people hate them. Specially in a case like yours, where you’re doing a lot of custom wiring and, if I’m not mistaken, hiding much of it.
But the opposite is true for me. I don’t hate it much, and I like a nice convenient junction point, and an easy to replace component.
It also keeps the rest of the power wires out of harms way.

The cure for that, though, is to simply not do it like Chevy did it, and don’t put all the other power wires for the car down on the starter. Where they get heat from the headers, oil from oil leaks, and you don’t always notice if they start to come loose.
I’m guessing you’re using a power junction point somewhere else? Don’t remember what you said you were doing about that.

I do have a couple more connections on my battery but yes, everything else is totally hidden.

I'll try to get a pic later when home but I have my starter drectly to battery and on the same terminal I have my one wire alternator connected to an MRBF terminal fuse. Then in order to be able to isolate, I have 3 other connections:
1) Cable that goes to a distribution block for everything inside the cab.
2) Cable for AMP Steps and bumper lights
3) Cable that goes to a 2 terminal mini ANL fuse block hidden behind the battery--one for my IGN-1a coils and another for my Stereo Amp (not done yet).

 

[ba123]

Yeah, not the prettiest setup right now but gonna try to find a cover for that and it's clean everywhere else.


Starter and alternator:

 

[DirtDonk]

But purdier than most! And you gotta' love marine terminal batteries. All that extra space for wires!

Paul

 

[Steve83]

And you gotta' love marine terminal batteries.

Not really. On most multi-terminal batteries, only the "main" terminals have the full CCA rating. The other terminals OFTEN have reduced ratings because the internal connections are not very robust. So you can't necessarily use the "additional" terminals for cranking, winching, or other high-current loads. You have to be very careful when reading the specs before buying a battery you can't use.

 

[ba123]

Not really. On most multi-terminal batteries, only the "main" terminals have the full CCA rating. The other terminals OFTEN have reduced ratings because the internal connections are not very robust. So you can't necessarily use the "additional" terminals for cranking, winching, or other high-current loads. You have to be very careful when reading the specs before buying a battery you can't use.

I love my battery and there is no rating difference between the posts that I could ever find. Possibly, the one 5/16” post might be slightly lower vs the two 3/8 connections, and esp since that's slightly further away. It's actually not a marine battery and just a “marine adapter” that is configurable. Battery is made more for high draw stereo systems. You can put whichever of their posts on the battery you want and it clearly works well.

My Battery (it comes with regular posts if you want to use them):
https://4xspower.com/products/a3400?_pos=1&_sid=19cf285af&_ss=r
My posts:
https://4xspower.com/products/553
Other posts:
https://4xspower.com/collections/terminals

 

[DirtDonk]

I never connect anything heavy to the smaller posts anyway.
Any starting, or winching duties are always handled by the heavy top posts. For me, the small threaded posts are for lighter use accessory connection only.

 

[ba123]

Although now that it came up, I just remembered that my 200 amp one-wire alternator only has a 1/4” stud, so pretty sure all of this is way overthought. There are so many things in an electrical system worth spendinng time on. Size does not matter in this case, it's more the quality of the connection, up to a point of course, but…

 

[DirtDonk]

Agreed. But a quarter inch stud can handle a lot of current through its very short length and direct connection to the alternator.
A wire on the other hand, needs the headroom for the safety factor under heavy use. Especially under deteriorating conditions, such as old age, and important as you noted, deteriorating connections.

But it’s true that all of these big battery cable size charge wires are overkill. Many of us just do it because we can, and because Ford chose to do it that way after their debacle with the 2G Alternator.
From the alternator to the battery, being a short distance, you could probably do a 10 gauge wire with 100 amp alternator and no problems. Maybe even 130a.
But it’s stretching the limit, and could easily warm up the wire under continued heavy use, adding more resistance.
Creating more problems.
So as we like to say in the battery and charging system wiring world, when it comes to wire sizes, “overkill, just enough“