Budget 5.7 (347) build

[englewoodcowboy]

I am getting ready to start ordering parts for my engine build and with trying to hit an entire project completion build by April 2016 my biggest limitation is finances. I have been going through what I want, must haves etc. and having to ground my ideas based on is it really needed will it be used for example, I originally wanted to run Detroit True Tracs front and rear, then I thought about it, this rig will not see much off road other than the occasional two track etc. like at Cades Cove so I have dropped the expensive diffs for leaving the front open and the rear I will run a ford posi since they are the most affordable along with the need to upgrade to 31 spline axles just for peace of mind. With this mindset I am examining my motor and have decided on a 347 build and using a set of GT40 heads. I was hung on cams and stumbled across some other ideas as I have a 5.0 HO that I am doing the build with, if I use the HO cam and advance it 4 degrees, what other items should I replace or could I re-use? I am figuring new timing set but which one is best money spent, what about valve train? I could buy lifters, rockers etc should I buy new lifters? I want roller rockers as I figure anything to help reduce friction will add to some improvements elsewhere, should I change the ratio of the rockers etc.? I have a solid direction to head, I just need some wisdom in what to buy or save my money on. I have helped build engines before but this will be my first that I am doing myself. Any and all ideas as always are greatly appreciated.

Some added specs, I am planning on running 4:56 gears, 33" tires and an AOD. I have not bought gears yet so the ratio could be changed if need be to take advantage of other existing parts or ideas.

 

[Bferrari]

What is it that you are going to be asking if this motor? If you plan on high RPM or drag racing the thing then I would spend the money on items such as roller rockers. If you want a solid piece and at the same time are budget concious, i would focus on spending the money on the rotating assembly, getting a good quality steel crank and forged pistions. The HO camshaft is a rather mild, but good overall choice, and advancind it 4 degrees will bring the cam in at earlier at a lower RPM. Be sure to get a degreeable timing chain when you order one, makes life alot easier. If you have a low mile donor that you are using and all the oil and internals look good during inspection at disassembly, no reason not to reuse the existing roller lifters. Be sure to take your time pulling the thing apart, as each piece has a story to tell. Look at all your wear points, bearings, cylinder walls, etc. to verify the condition of your block as it sits.

 

[needabronco]

With GT40 heads and an HO cam your best 'budget 5.7' would be to go straight to a 5.8! If your on a budget a 347 or any stroker simply doesn't add up.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

We are all on budgets, I am not looking to buy 3k heads etc. as it is not a drag race engine however with the bronco in mind, buying certain parts just to say I have them is a waste as well, what I am after is wise expenditures so I have more funds available for other must have items on my list which will add up quick come re-assembly of the bronco. I know for a fact more cubes is more low end which our broncos need. I do not want a 351 or I would have bought that in the first place, I do want a 347 and they are not outrageous to build by any means these days.

 

[Broncobowsher]

And a 5.8 (351W) can get you more solid cubic inches on less money.

You are asking how to build big inches on a little budget. But don't want to go with the solid low budget starting point. It's like saying you want to know what shade of red to paint the truck but you don't want to use red paint. Why the stubborn aversion to the simple fix to the problem?

 

[Bronco Brian]

trying to hit an entire project completion build by April 2016 my biggest limitation is finances.

We all row that boat

With GT40 heads and an HO cam your best 'budget 5.7' would be to go straight to a 5.8! If your on a budget a 347 or any stroker simply doesn't add up.

Have had a 5.0 went to a 5.8 way better

And a 5.8 (351W) can get you more solid cubic inches on less money.[/QUOTE]

See above post and a cheaper stoker would be a 393

 

[73azbronco]

I have a 347 and with your comment of wanting budget and using a 5.0 cam leads me to say you will want to rethink the 351 5.8 option.

My budget stroker is $8000. You really need to investigate all the ins and outs of the stroker before you commit. For me, I always wanted one and that over came the other issues.

The camshaft is the biggest issue bar none. Only a few places get it right IMO. Rotating assembly's will cost you another $1000 plus. Parts add up real quick into the $4000 range.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

Well I must be talking two different languages with you guys because I do appreciate the opinion of a 351 being a cheaper option... perhaps someone changed the meaning of the word BUDGET and forgot to tell me. My Budget for my entire build is $35,000, I do not want to spend 10K on a motor that is better suited for the track. I am building a 302 based lightning essentially. The 351 Lightning motor was great in its hay day, plenty of power for a truck but could have been built to so much more as can a 302. This is not a query of what base I should start with which seems to be everyones opinion, I am after torque, could care less if the motor is not built to turn 8000 rpms, save that motor for a mustang or rail... Its like this, if I wanted a diamond and decided to paint it black, its my rock, it is still a diamond and it does what I want. Now what I am asking is if I should buy a real diamond or CZ... get it? Semantics aside I am wanting a motor, 347, no changing that, I want it to build close to 300#s of torque give or take and I want it to be reliable. I am not an engine man, I have helped build them in the past, rebuilt some in my boats but they were stock as I was not interested in improving it over how it ran initially. This is a different animal, as the opinions here have stated, it seems most that you ask see something on TV and have to build it with the best parts for this or that all the while forgetting that what you see on TV is typically built for a car or the track, not a truck. This is what I am looking for answers of, I do not want to buy heads for example that I will never see the benefit from untill I run the engine at 8000 rpms etc. Likewise with the cam choice etc. The HO cam, lift and duration as BFerrari pointed out is a decent all around cam, install it advanced 4 degrees brings it in sooner essentially making it a truck cam if you will. I am trying to find out if I should keep my stock valve train or perhaps change the ratio of the lifters etc. I have read that going from 1.6 to 1.7 it aids in increasing torque but where in the power band does it do it that you would notice it? I am after info like this.

 

[Broncobowsher]

All you want is 300 ft-lb of torque? Stock '90 mustang 5.0 did that.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

That is a minimum. I would love to double what a stock eb motor had.

 

[bigcountry]

That is a minimum. I would love to double what a stock eb motor had.

I built a 347. Mine is a little overkill, but it is what I wanted so there you go.

You can buy a stroker kit with decent rods, cast crank, and hyper pistons for a reasonable price. I would stay with 1.6 ratio rockers. I am a believer in custom grind cams, but you can pick a decent cam off the shelf for what you are wanting. With the GT40 heads you could easily hit the 325 hp mark with 375-400 ft lbs torque. With the iron heads, try to keep the CR to 9-9.3.

You can stay with a stock style distributer that was ran in the early carbureted roller motors which will save some money.

Should be fun little motor. Just my thoughts.

 

[67686977]

Just curious, Why are you stuck on the 347? Trying to use some of the parts you already have? I had a 302 and considered the options and found a 351 to give more torque for the dollar than the 347. The only regret is that i did not go to 408. Like you said, it's your rock, just curious.

 

[bronconut73]

351W...
Idiot proof low rpm torque.
My eb launches super hard. Scares the hell out of some people.
347's "are" cool....but for what you are looking for in power and torque a mild ie, cheap 351W will eclipse your expectations/needs.
Just sayin'
But I like 347's too just can't justify the cost with so many Windsors still around.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

I built a 347. Mine is a little overkill, but it is what I wanted so there you go.



You can buy a stroker kit with decent rods, cast crank, and hyper pistons for a reasonable price. I would stay with 1.6 ratio rockers. I am a believer in custom grind cams, but you can pick a decent cam off the shelf for what you are wanting. With the GT40 heads you could easily hit the 325 hp mark with 375-400 ft lbs torque. With the iron heads, try to keep the CR to 9-9.3.



You can stay with a stock style distributer that was ran in the early carbureted roller motors which will save some money.



Should be fun little motor. Just my thoughts.

That is exactly the info I am looking for. Thanks Lane. What would you consider for a custom grind? The numbers are greek to me and when you call the cam techs, you get a different answer from a different tech giving them all the same info and none of them can tell you what to expect etc.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

Just curious, Why are you stuck on the 347? Trying to use some of the parts you already have? I had a 302 and considered the options and found a 351 to give more torque for the dollar than the 347. The only regret is that i did not go to 408. Like you said, it's your rock, just curious.

You hit the nail on the head, I already have a bunch of the parts, not a whole lot invested and trying to work with what I already have. On a second note and my affinity of the 302, when I was a kid, my Granddads business had an old 73 F150, 302 3 on the tree that when new was my uncles truck. He beat the hell out of it for 100K miles, then it was handed down to my dad who did the exact same then it became the shop truck which again by employees who do not care about a thing, was beat another 100K by the time I was old enough to drive it. I cannot say that I got to put another 100K on it but I sure tried my best to make that motor give up the ghost and it did not. It was finally retired with over 400 rounds when the body was no longer safe to have on the road and it was driven to the scrap yard. Also as I grew up I had a 1973 Shamrock 21' Center Console and its power, you guessed it a marinized 302. Again I ran that thing as hard as I could, took it everywhere I shouldn't have and it always brought me home, I never worried about that motor letting me down. So as you can see, its a personal experience thing, an homage if you will to a really reliable and great power plant.

Even though I have a reasonable budget to build my bronco, I am also trying to see how much I can still have what I want but come in under it.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

351W...
Idiot proof low rpm torque.
My eb launches super hard. Scares the hell out of some people.
347's "are" cool....but for what you are looking for in power and torque a mild ie, cheap 351W will eclipse your expectations/needs.
Just sayin'
But I like 347's too just can't justify the cost with so many Windsors still around.

I completely understand where you are coming from but also like you said, the 347 has that cool factor on top of it. I am hell bent on making my bronco on initial sighting look period correct but loaded with modern options as if they rolled off the showroom floor like that. Way back when I did consider the 351 but changed my path when I decided to stay period correct. I am also looking at adding a shaker hood scoop probably after the build is finished when I am looking for a winter project and from what I understand, the 351 has a taller deck, being I am adding a 1" BL for my vision of the perfect stance, the little bit of room I have to make the shaker work as I envision it is already at a minimum and I will need every hair.

 

[rguest3]

347 Scat stroker kit with Forged pistons at 9.6 to 1 compression
Comp Cam Xe258HR - 12 Roller cam - computer Compatible - Very nice low end torque.
AFR 165cc heads
Carb or EFI intake
BC headers and 2 into 1 exhaust

I have had this combo on a 347 and same cam/heads on 351w. IMO this is the perfect combo for an early Bronco.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

OK, a little more progress on this topic, I spoke with Cam Motion today and he recommended a custom grind of 210/214 Duration and 540/525 lift with the GT40 heads and 347 bottom end at 9.6 compression. What are your thoughts on this grind? He did reinforce my choice of parts and usage as saying that I would never see a difference between ARF heads or Trick Flow until I was in the upper RPM range which i snot something this will see on a regular basis. Keep in mind I am running 4:56 gears an AOD and 33" tires. I would like to find a free program that would plot a graph to see exactly how this should work as far as HP and Torque with the emphasis on Tq. compared to the HO cam advanced 4 degrees etc.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

With a little magic of the old Desktop Dyno and even though I do not expect it to be 100% accurate I do expect it to be close enough in profile to compare cams, intakes mods etc to get a base idea and with what results it produced switching from a custom grind, the explorer cam as well as the HO cam, again I have gone back to the HO cam to give the best performance overall in the 2K to 5K range. This is based on a 347 bottom end, 9.6 compression ratio, stock GT40 heads, edelbrock performer dual plane manifold and TBI EFI.

 

[NicksTrix]

cowboy, don't forget with the right sticker combination you can add an easy 50 hp to those numbers. I heard a monster energy M is worth 10 and 15 if you go for full rear window.