Advice on lining body panels up

[Sendero]

My Bronco body is currently on a cart and at a stage in the build where I have performed quite a bit of rust repair in various places around the tub including floor pan replacement, fender wells, pillar repair etc. I have brand new, one piece seamless quarters, rockers, doors, fenders etc which are all trimmed and roughly fitted into place, not welded. I am transferring it to the chassis soon which is fully built with the drivetrain and all. I will be using a 1" body lift for mounts.

My question is, after I transfer the body onto the chassis, any advice or words of wisdom getting the body panels lined up before welding them in? Particularly the inner quarters, outer seamless quarters/bedrails and rockers, as the other items I am not too concerned about, I will fit/trim fenders and doors later. I want to make sure the body lines are straight and the bedrails of the seamless quarters end up in the correct spot so my hard top will work with my windshield etc. It seams impossible to have the top in place, on the bed rail while trying to line it up and tack it in. I am sure there are measurements out there for this, does anyone have them and should I follow such measurements or is it better to work with what I have in front of me?

Things to note:
- At the start of my build, my frame was tweaked from a hard life, and I had a very reputable bronco shop straighten and repair it.
- I can only assume the body was slightly tweaked from whatever tweaked the frame. I have visually straightened it out with levels etc to a point that the panels are in a decent position on the cart, but I can only assume it is not quite in the factory position.
- I have not replaced the tailgate post, A pillars, or B pillars. They all remained in place with the tub but the inner and outer quarters are gone.
- I built the cart using lumber so let's not assume its precise. (Thanks Jason and Johnnie builds for the cart plans)
- My rig is a '66 bud body with the short inner fender aprons and different core support. May not matter in the conversation but figured I would throw it out there.

Thanks!

 

[Sendero]

Quick Bump

 

[jamesroney]

OK, I can't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want your Bronco to be built "as good as Budd" built it, or do you want it straight? (this is a real question.)

Keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the cowl was ever installed square to the bed. Many/most were installed incorrectly...resulting in the passenger door gap being larger than the driver's door gap. The only way to know is to hang the fenders and the hood and work your way BACKWARDS to find your correct B-post location.

The majority of Broncos are built with the windshield frame hinge location in the wrong place, and then it gets corrected with a shim behind the hood hinge so that the front of the hood aligns with the grill. Because the cowl is in the wrong place, the fender is constrained to be in the wrong place. So you end up with a crooked hood, and one side of the Bronco is longer than the other side. Once you see it...you can't unsee it. I recently saw a very high end Coyote swapped restoration that was built crooked. My stone stock, untouched, all original sheet metal Military Bronco is also crooked. My Boxwood Green 69 is NOT built crooked. It is straight, and correct. Ton of work for minimal gain.

You will need to have your doors hung and installed in order to get the curvature of your quarter panel correct when you weld it to the B-post. You also need your doors hung when you install your rockers...otherwise the lower door gap will end up too big. Remember that Bronco doors do not sit square on the body. They sit an an angle, so they always want to stay closed. There is an angle built into the kick panel, and a matching angle built into the B-post. Don't even think of using a square to make the B-post square to the floor. Alsos, I don't know how many people have installed the rockers too low, and then complain that the aftermarket doors are too short. But then when you hang a perfect factory door...the rocker is still too low. So watch out for that.

If you want your Bronco to be "right" then you need to start with the A-pillar, and go forward. Hang the fender, and then match the grill to the hood. Then go BACK and measure from the fender when you install your rockers. (I hope you haven't welded your floor to the bed floor yet. That's actually the last thing to get welded.) Since you have a 66-68, the FIRST thing to install is the windshield hinge. Bolt it dead nuts parallel with the cowl. The compare that hinge pin location to the back of the fender on both sides of the Bronco. If it is 100% exactly the same on both sides...then just forget about everything I typed. But if it ISN't...you've got some work to do. Hope that all makes sense.

 

[73azbronco]

I would have a handful of body shims, the ones used on the body mount positions, so you can tweak the body up down as needed to get it as good before you press send it.

 

[Sendero]

OK, I can't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want your Bronco to be built "as good as Budd" built it, or do you want it straight.

Keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the cowl was ever installed square to the bed. Many/most were installed incorrectly...resulting in the passenger door gap being larger than the driver's door gap. The only way to know is to hang the fenders and the hood and work your way BACKWARDS to find your correct B-post location.

The majority of Broncos are built with the windshield frame hinge location in the wrong place, and then it gets corrected with a shim behind the hood hinge so that the front of the hood aligns with the grill. Because the cowl is in the wrong place, the fender is constrained to be in the wrong place. So you end up with a crooked hood, and one side of the Bronco is longer than the other side. Once you see it...you can't unsee it. I recently saw a very high end Coyote swapped restoration that was built crooked. My stone stock, untouched, all original sheet metal Military Bronco is also crooked. My Boxwood Green 69 is NOT built crooked. It is straight, and correct. Ton of work for minimal gain.

You will need to have your doors hung and installed in order to get the curvature of your quarter panel correct when you weld it to the B-post. You also need your doors hung when you install your rockers...otherwise the lower door gap will end up too big. Remember that Bronco doors do not sit square on the body. They sit an an angle, so they always want to stay closed. There is an angle built into the kick panel, and a matching angle built into the B-post. Don't even think of using a square to make the B-post square to the floor. Alsos, I don't know how many people have installed the rockers too low, and then complain that the aftermarket doors are too short. But then when you hang a perfect factory door...the rocker is still too low. So watch out for that.

If you want your Bronco to be "right" then you need to start with the A-pillar, and go forward. Hang the fender, and then match the grill to the hood. Then go BACK and measure from the fender when you install your rockers. (I hope you haven't welded your floor to the bed floor yet. That's actually the last thing to get welded.) Since you have a 66-68, the FIRST thing to install is the windshield hinge. Bolt it dead nuts parallel with the cowl. The compare that hinge pin location to the back of the fender on both sides of the Bronco. If it is 100% exactly the same on both sides...then just forget about everything I typed. But if it ISN't...you've got some work to do. Hope that all makes sense.

This is helpful so thank you. I have a few questions:

- What do you mean when you say "I hope you haven't welded your floor to the bed floor yet". Which floor are you talking about? I replaced the upper floor pans / kick panels but haven't messed with the bed floor. I have not welded the rockers in yet either.

- I noticed the huge gap below the door and above the rockers when I mocked them up and I also noticed that the aftermarket doors are about an 1/8 of an inch shorter in length than the factory doors. Considering I can't bring the B pillar forward, the only way I can think to remedy this is to use washers on the door mounts to move the door back some. What would be another fix for this and do we trust the aftermarket dennis carpenter doors to be correct? The only other think I can think is to do some serious sheet metal work to extend them.

I also purchased the aftermarket dennis carpenter fenders already assembled and it seems likely I will have to drill out the spot welds to realign the fender so the gap between the door and the fender ends up straight. Thoughts?

 

[jamesroney]

This is helpful so thank you. I have a few questions:

- What do you mean when you say "I hope you haven't welded your floor to the bed floor yet". Which floor are you talking about? I replaced the upper floor pans / kick panels but haven't messed with the bed floor. I have not welded the rockers in yet either.

- I noticed the huge gap below the door and above the rockers when I mocked them up and I also noticed that the aftermarket doors are about an 1/8 of an inch shorter in length than the factory doors. Considering I can't bring the B pillar forward, the only way I can think to remedy this is to use washers on the door mounts to move the door back some. What would be another fix for this and do we trust the aftermarket dennis carpenter doors to be correct? The only other think I can think is to do some serious sheet metal work to extend them.

I also purchased the aftermarket dennis carpenter fenders already assembled and it seems likely I will have to drill out the spot welds to realign the fender so the gap between the door and the fender ends up straight. Thoughts?

The "floor" is the combination seat riser, and floor pan. The rearmost edge of that piece will lap over the "bed floor" which is the corrugated piece, and it gets about 40 spot welds. That is the only place where you can "stretch or shrink" the Bronco between the windshield frame and the tailgate. (which happens to be the distance that makes the top fit correctly. It is also the only place to "straighten" the back of the body.

I have found that the aftermarket doors are really, really good. they are are a not as long, but almost as tall as the stock ones. But all within 1/16 of factory doors. Yeah...when you put the rockers where they want to fit naturally...they make a huge (more than 1/2 inch) gap. You've got to be careful with washers or shims on the door hinges. You've got a 66, and I think they make those doors still. But watch out for the 67 doors. They fit, and the latches are in the right place...but of course they look funny.

The fender flanges will indeed have to be un-spot welded, removed and re-welded. But don't be fooled. You can't shove the door toward the tailgate, and expect the fender to fit. Think about it, and you figure out that the phillips head bolts that hold the fender can't be installed if the flange is welded on so that the fender is moved rearward. So yeah...bolt the flange to the A-post, then try to install the fender, and you figure out that the Hood (and grill and fender and door gap) is the controlling piece. So don't be afraid to bolt it together a couple of times before you start welding things. The rockers WILL fit with a correct gap, but there is some massaging to do.

 

[Sendero]

The "floor" is the combination seat riser, and floor pan. The rearmost edge of that piece will lap over the "bed floor" which is the corrugated piece, and it gets about 40 spot welds. That is the only place where you can "stretch or shrink" the Bronco between the windshield frame and the tailgate. (which happens to be the distance that makes the top fit correctly. It is also the only place to "straighten" the back of the body.

I have found that the aftermarket doors are really, really good. they are are a not as long, but almost as tall as the stock ones. But all within 1/16 of factory doors. Yeah...when you put the rockers where they want to fit naturally...they make a huge (more than 1/2 inch) gap. You've got to be careful with washers or shims on the door hinges. You've got a 66, and I think they make those doors still. But watch out for the 67 doors. They fit, and the latches are in the right place...but of course they look funny.

The fender flanges will indeed have to be un-spot welded, removed and re-welded. But don't be fooled. You can't shove the door toward the tailgate, and expect the fender to fit. Think about it, and you figure out that the phillips head bolts that hold the fender can't be installed if the flange is welded on so that the fender is moved rearward. So yeah...bolt the flange to the A-post, then try to install the fender, and you figure out that the Hood (and grill and fender and door gap) is the controlling piece. So don't be afraid to bolt it together a couple of times before you start welding things. The rockers WILL fit with a correct gap, but there is some massaging to do.

Just so I am clear, you are saying start with the hood and fenders then work my way back. Does this mean to worry about the hard top at the end? Either shim it or do some fab work to make it work?

Also, I notice some broncos appear to have body filler in the gap between the rocker panel and the rear quarter panel, while others you can clearly see the panel separation line. What is the advice on this? When I get the rockers and quarters in in the most desirable position, I notice that gap is not square. Would make it easy to plan to fill that in later during body work or should I get the right with sheet metal work?

 

[jamesroney]

Just so I am clear, you are saying start with the hood and fenders then work my way back. Does this mean to worry about the hard top at the end? Either shim it or do some fab work to make it work?

Also, I notice some broncos appear to have body filler in the gap between the rocker panel and the rear quarter panel, while others you can clearly see the panel separation line. What is the advice on this? When I get the rockers and quarters in in the most desirable position, I notice that gap is not square. Would make it easy to plan to fill that in later during body work or should I get the right with sheet metal work?

You still haven't answered my first question. And NO...you do not assemble a Bronco from the front. You START at the A pillar, and the kick panel. But you don't KNOW where that goes without a jig...or else putting on the hood/grill/fenders.

The joint between the rocker and rear quarter is pinch welded, and seam sealed. Broncos are not monocoque and should have prominent panel separation lines. I don't know what you mean by square, but if the panels are stamped correctly, they fit. I have had to cut, and re-bend many rocker flanges to get the door gaps right. And by "right" I mean making both sides of the Bronco exactly the correct length so that the tailgate is parallel to the windshield frame / cowl.

About the hardtop, I don't know what you mean by "worry." I worry about everything, and everything gets fit, measured, squared, and massaged before final welding. It is very easy to put a bronco together and make a parallelogram. Then when you go to put the top on...you can discover it. So make certain that everything that is supposed to be square is square.

 

[jeffncs]

@skrit

May be helpful as you’re building your body.

 

[DC_Gearhead]

I drilled my front fenders welds out to “disassemble” and fit them to my body parts. It’s pretty common practice on here. None of it lines up perfectly so you just have to spend a lot of time massaging it. The jig gets you perfect dimensions but it’s like restoring an old home. Nothing is square in an old house so if you start building things square it looks crooked. You will need to just start building to your Bronco and adjust things to fit. Align panels and set gaps. Then see if it all functions. Then fix the stuff that doesn’t. Repeat.

I am a pretty hard core “dimensions and calculations” guy, but I was chasing my tail for a while trying to make it “right”. Catch is….it was never right from the factory and now you are using reproduction parts that may be more right or worse. You gotta be ok with it “looking right” and disregard perfection.

I measure for important things like centering door openings and hood openings but don’t get hung up on my dimensions not matching what they are supposed to be.


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[Sendero]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am more of a work with what I have in front of me type of person and as long as it looks good then I am happy. I just also don't want to overlook measurements and specs as they serve a good purpose too and I am trying to slow down more these days and take more mature approach where I can. It looks like I will get everything lined up as best as possible including the hood, fenders, rockers and doors, then tack in the rear quarters, then put the top on to see what I am working with before I weld it in.

 

[Sendero]

Also, can someone confirm if the very top of the bedrails are supposed to be individually level (left and right) or does the top of them slightly slope outward to allow for water drainage?

 

[DC_Gearhead]

Mine slope outwards a very slightly from factory. It’s one of the only parts original on my rig at this point. Firewall is the other part. Replaced everything else.


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[Sendero]

Mine slope outwards a very slightly from factory. It’s one of the only parts original on my rig at this point. Firewall is the other part. Replaced everything else.


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Thanks for the help, I will set mine up the same which follows the curve of the b pillar

 

[78Scronco]

this thread scares me about replacing any welded body panels, ha!

 

[Sendero]

If it makes you feel any better, she is looking pretty good at the moment. I ended up getting help from a local bronco shop and it worked out pretty good. He didn't quite get the twist out of it but I added some more shims, got the twist out and was able to correct the doors. I have a full sized hard top on it too now that is fitting pretty good. Bumpers on order and it is almost ready for paint.

 

[78Scronco]

Wow looks great! good job!

 

[DirtDonk]

After reading some of James’ descriptions, I think I understand now why my 68 is the only Bronco I’ve ever had, or worked on, that needed a shim behind one of the hood hinges.
Because everything else seems to line up so well, it looks like only the hood is crooked. But it’s probably the cowl and windshield frame as the basis for everything else, that puts things off slightly.

 

[Sendero]

@DirtDonk My entire cowl is crooked as in not level. The driver side sits about 1/2" higher that the passenger side. A reputable bronco builder had another one at his shop that had the same exact condition as mine and he seems to think it was likely manufactured that way. We found some ways to adjust and shim to correct it but thought it was interesting considering.