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Fix Motor Mount
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427 Stroker
- Thread starter rcmbronc
- Start date
Getting closer. Chassis is a roller mow so motor and tranny next. Took a week off in Florida to watch my boy play college baseball.
Got my dizzy ordered. Holley dual sync with cap to use 8 coils. Need to still pick ECU and coils. Probably Holley HP ECU.
Hopefully soon.
Got my dizzy ordered. Holley dual sync with cap to use 8 coils. Need to still pick ECU and coils. Probably Holley HP ECU.
Hopefully soon.
Here is the latest update.
Getting very close to starting this thing. To say it has gone over board is an understatement. I am using a Holley dual sync distributor with a top cap. I installed D585 LS coils for coil on plug.
I went with a Haltech 2000 ECU and harness. They also made the coil harness for me. I like the support from them and the options with the ECU. Also a local racer/tuner is a dealer and will be very helpful. Now I need to finish the harness install and exhaust.
Getting very close to starting this thing. To say it has gone over board is an understatement. I am using a Holley dual sync distributor with a top cap. I installed D585 LS coils for coil on plug.
I went with a Haltech 2000 ECU and harness. They also made the coil harness for me. I like the support from them and the options with the ECU. Also a local racer/tuner is a dealer and will be very helpful. Now I need to finish the harness install and exhaust.
Attachments
Local Boy
Full Member
Looking good, Brutha!
I know the feeling of once you commit to building a monster...There's no turning back. The expense and amount of research for the correct (performance matching) parts can get frustrating... and blow your budget completely out of the water...
It'll be well worth it, once you get it up and running... and feel the power under your right foot...
Aloha
I know the feeling of once you commit to building a monster...There's no turning back. The expense and amount of research for the correct (performance matching) parts can get frustrating... and blow your budget completely out of the water...
It'll be well worth it, once you get it up and running... and feel the power under your right foot...
Aloha
No suggestions on the air cleaner but a comment on your fuel and ignition: Awesome! Really looking forward to seeing how it runs. As I noted earlier I went all Ford but would consider something different next time around if there is one.
Local Boy
Full Member
This is the type I'm running...Works great for me...
I needed it to sit under the hood scoop...this one fits perfectly...it's directly in-line with the scoop opening.... Taking air in from the top increases air volume...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-66-3010/overview/
Looking forward to you getting it up and running!
Aloha
I needed it to sit under the hood scoop...this one fits perfectly...it's directly in-line with the scoop opening.... Taking air in from the top increases air volume...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-66-3010/overview/
Looking forward to you getting it up and running!
Aloha
I was able to get it started last night. Big milestone. Runs decent and finally idles. Seems the timing is not very steady and consistent so I need to take a look at that. Surprised with all the wiring needed for this that I actually got this far.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Messages
- 47,833
Congrats! Glad it's past another milestone.
On the timing, since the computer is controlling it, don't worry about it. If you look at any modern car through it's OBDII port you will see timing jump all over the place. Even at idle it's bouncing around and usually a very high value on a stock engine.
Once started it might be anywhere from the 20's to the 30's on the screen.
Makes hunting for vacuum leaks that will effect advance, and loose distributor parts that can rattle the timing a real chore.
But hey, you don't have any of those things! So no problem!
Now, I don't know jack about the system you have, so a call to someone's tech line might not be out of line. But I'm guessing if it's running well, the jumping timing is not an issue.
Paul
On the timing, since the computer is controlling it, don't worry about it. If you look at any modern car through it's OBDII port you will see timing jump all over the place. Even at idle it's bouncing around and usually a very high value on a stock engine.
Once started it might be anywhere from the 20's to the 30's on the screen.
Makes hunting for vacuum leaks that will effect advance, and loose distributor parts that can rattle the timing a real chore.
But hey, you don't have any of those things! So no problem!
Now, I don't know jack about the system you have, so a call to someone's tech line might not be out of line. But I'm guessing if it's running well, the jumping timing is not an issue.
Paul
Local Boy
Full Member
Congrat's on the first fire!
Although I'm not familiar with your EMS.... Generally, regarding timing...
Most systems have "Idle Spark" tables that move the timing to try to stabilize the idle...This is especially important when you move from park to 1st gear... This is what Paul is referring too...
Note: Your Max Idle TPS value needs to be set correctly ... your Idle TPS value needs to be under this value for this table to work...
Your VE table will affect this table....so you need to dial in your VE to get your timing table correct... you do not want a rolling idle...
Also, check your "Crank reference angle " to make sure that it is the same as what you see from your light...(*Don't use adjustable timing lights...If that's what you got...set it to "0" (zero)
* If not the same timing value adjust your "Crank Reference angle" to get it exactly the same... Note, unless you have a "test" timing function...you need to set all your lower timing cells that may be hit at idle...to the same value...to eliminate the "Idle Spark" function from activating...
Your system should have a "Induction delay" tab.... check it (value) to ensure that it is within your manuals specs...
Also, make sure your injector calibration information is correctly inputted into your computer...If this is "off" (ie: flow rate vs. pressure) it will be impossible to tune...
On this point, different flow rated injectors (45 lbs vs. 65 lbs. injectors) have different linear angles (shot) when they reach full open.... You need to account for this when you build your VE table...particularly ... your idle cells - this is where you will most notice the impact...
Good to hear it's alive!
Aloha
Although I'm not familiar with your EMS.... Generally, regarding timing...
Most systems have "Idle Spark" tables that move the timing to try to stabilize the idle...This is especially important when you move from park to 1st gear... This is what Paul is referring too...
Note: Your Max Idle TPS value needs to be set correctly ... your Idle TPS value needs to be under this value for this table to work...
Your VE table will affect this table....so you need to dial in your VE to get your timing table correct... you do not want a rolling idle...
Also, check your "Crank reference angle " to make sure that it is the same as what you see from your light...(*Don't use adjustable timing lights...If that's what you got...set it to "0" (zero)
* If not the same timing value adjust your "Crank Reference angle" to get it exactly the same... Note, unless you have a "test" timing function...you need to set all your lower timing cells that may be hit at idle...to the same value...to eliminate the "Idle Spark" function from activating...
Your system should have a "Induction delay" tab.... check it (value) to ensure that it is within your manuals specs...
Also, make sure your injector calibration information is correctly inputted into your computer...If this is "off" (ie: flow rate vs. pressure) it will be impossible to tune...
On this point, different flow rated injectors (45 lbs vs. 65 lbs. injectors) have different linear angles (shot) when they reach full open.... You need to account for this when you build your VE table...particularly ... your idle cells - this is where you will most notice the impact...
Good to hear it's alive!
Aloha
Last edited:
Local Boy
Full Member
Super Cool!
Ooops...double post... : (
Ooops...double post... : (
I did find last night that my Dizzy clearance is not correct. It appears the gear is bottoming out just before the dizzy is seated in the block. I cant remember how to adjust this on a Ford. I have also read that some HD oil pump shafts are too long and may not be letting the dizzy gear all the way down. I need to do some measurements and get this figured out. I also forgot the O ring on the Dizzy so with that and the dizzy not seated I assume that probably is the slight knock.
When I set it up I set the timing locked at 0 and injectors off. Cranked engine to check. It was off from the 50 degrees Holley says to set up the dizzy. So i adjusted the reference angle until it was at TDC but it still was not super spot on. Then I got it running. The timing table in the idle area the motor was running is all 25 degrees but next time I will lock it in at a number to check again.
I also forgot to run a separate body ground wire that may give me some issue so I need to do that also.
I also forgot to set up the TPS in the software so that will help.
It did idle but how do you know if the IAC is being used too much for idle or when to open the throttle blades up some for idle. It is a Accutune 4 barrel throttle body.
When I set it up I set the timing locked at 0 and injectors off. Cranked engine to check. It was off from the 50 degrees Holley says to set up the dizzy. So i adjusted the reference angle until it was at TDC but it still was not super spot on. Then I got it running. The timing table in the idle area the motor was running is all 25 degrees but next time I will lock it in at a number to check again.
I also forgot to run a separate body ground wire that may give me some issue so I need to do that also.
I also forgot to set up the TPS in the software so that will help.
It did idle but how do you know if the IAC is being used too much for idle or when to open the throttle blades up some for idle. It is a Accutune 4 barrel throttle body.
Local Boy
Full Member
Be Careful... These motors can eat themselves if set up incorrectly
Once you get the dizzy seated, and the crank reference angle adjusted again at 50* ( 50* is the general starting point...mine included)) ...relative to the dizzy orientation ... then you can move to firing up again...
Data log every time you fire it up!
Caution: You do not want your cam sensor to trigger BEFORE your crank sensor....Not sure about your EMS..but my understanding that this rule is for all systems, as the same principles apply...
Caution: You never want your crank reference angle to be at TDC.... It always needs to be BEFORE or right at your Max timing value. This is probably the source of your knock... Your computer needs to see the crank angle first... to saturate your coil in preparation to send the spark... then the cam sensor excites the coil and the coil fires when the reluctor drops the magnetic field and the rotor is "Hopefully" in line with the correct terminal...
At first, set your idle TPS value high.... like 10 or 15 when working on the idle...this will allow for IAC and throttle blade adjustments to happen without it coming out of "idle" in the software... Note: At this temporary setting (high TPS value), the motor will be slow to Rev', and run terrible...so you should avoid Rev'ing the motor while these temporary settings are in place... You have the final idle TPS value once you get it idling where you like it....then set the MAX idle TPS value around 1.5 - 2.0 higher than the TPS value you are at when idling...
Note: You should avoid Rev'ing the motor until your VE table is correctly built! I know this is hard, as the urge to hear it roar is strong... But, get it (VE table/AFR table) dialed in before doing so.... You will be glad you did!
You have one of the better EMS, so you should be able to select and insert the IAC data into your dash board and see it in real time.... You can also, as you should be doing every time you fire it up... see it in your data log, in real time also.... Generally, it is suggested to get your IAC between 10-20 counts at idle....If you can get there...Good for you! If not, no worries...;D
Note: Strokers, like ours, particularly if running big injectors, often need more IAC to compensate for the large injector flow rate at idle.... As an example, my IAC count is around mid 30's and will fluctuate up to mid 40's due to my 65 lbs. PTE injectors.... This is needed to get it to idle at 800 rpms... ;D
So set your IAC to around 20 at idle for Strokers (mild builds shoot for 10), and adjust your throttle blades to reach your target idle rpms...You will need to adjust, back and forth with this until you get a stable idle where you like it... Note: You will need to do this while also dialing in your idle timing, as your timing will affect these parameters and put you back to square one to start all over again... if you don't interface your idle timing with this process...Don't forget your idle VE values will also need to be considered here...to get your target AFR's in-line.
You want to keep your idle TPS value below 5... 2 is the best spot... mine is at 2.5 and my MAX Idle TPS value is at 3.5...for context...
Good Luck!
Aloha
Once you get the dizzy seated, and the crank reference angle adjusted again at 50* ( 50* is the general starting point...mine included)) ...relative to the dizzy orientation ... then you can move to firing up again...
Data log every time you fire it up!
Caution: You do not want your cam sensor to trigger BEFORE your crank sensor....Not sure about your EMS..but my understanding that this rule is for all systems, as the same principles apply...
Caution: You never want your crank reference angle to be at TDC.... It always needs to be BEFORE or right at your Max timing value. This is probably the source of your knock... Your computer needs to see the crank angle first... to saturate your coil in preparation to send the spark... then the cam sensor excites the coil and the coil fires when the reluctor drops the magnetic field and the rotor is "Hopefully" in line with the correct terminal...
At first, set your idle TPS value high.... like 10 or 15 when working on the idle...this will allow for IAC and throttle blade adjustments to happen without it coming out of "idle" in the software... Note: At this temporary setting (high TPS value), the motor will be slow to Rev', and run terrible...so you should avoid Rev'ing the motor while these temporary settings are in place... You have the final idle TPS value once you get it idling where you like it....then set the MAX idle TPS value around 1.5 - 2.0 higher than the TPS value you are at when idling...
Note: You should avoid Rev'ing the motor until your VE table is correctly built! I know this is hard, as the urge to hear it roar is strong... But, get it (VE table/AFR table) dialed in before doing so.... You will be glad you did!
You have one of the better EMS, so you should be able to select and insert the IAC data into your dash board and see it in real time.... You can also, as you should be doing every time you fire it up... see it in your data log, in real time also.... Generally, it is suggested to get your IAC between 10-20 counts at idle....If you can get there...Good for you! If not, no worries...;D
Note: Strokers, like ours, particularly if running big injectors, often need more IAC to compensate for the large injector flow rate at idle.... As an example, my IAC count is around mid 30's and will fluctuate up to mid 40's due to my 65 lbs. PTE injectors.... This is needed to get it to idle at 800 rpms... ;D
So set your IAC to around 20 at idle for Strokers (mild builds shoot for 10), and adjust your throttle blades to reach your target idle rpms...You will need to adjust, back and forth with this until you get a stable idle where you like it... Note: You will need to do this while also dialing in your idle timing, as your timing will affect these parameters and put you back to square one to start all over again... if you don't interface your idle timing with this process...Don't forget your idle VE values will also need to be considered here...to get your target AFR's in-line.
You want to keep your idle TPS value below 5... 2 is the best spot... mine is at 2.5 and my MAX Idle TPS value is at 3.5...for context...
Good Luck!
Aloha
Last edited:
I measured alot last night. The height from the mating surface and bottom of gear is longer than spec. Bottoms out the gear just before seating. No end play. Not good. Holley distributor. May be also made by MSD not sure. Have to figure out how to fix it. Thinking about the shim idea or moving the gear.
Other than that I have talked to Haltech and the timing thing does not bother me now. I need to lock timing and then check it as some have said the computer is trying to adjust all the time. Then I can go to tuning the idle.
One other thing is through all this I had the body off. I went through the original wiring and re taped it. I also removed the stock starter solenoid and direct wired to solenoid on the starter. I must have messed something up as not the start function on the original key does not work. Just another thing to figure out.
I am actually really impressed that the truck starts. It has been alot of wiring and combing alot of different parts to make this work. The local Haltech rep gave me a base tune and it seems to be working. They have been awesome so far to deal with. Highly recommend them. Getting closer.
Other than that I have talked to Haltech and the timing thing does not bother me now. I need to lock timing and then check it as some have said the computer is trying to adjust all the time. Then I can go to tuning the idle.
One other thing is through all this I had the body off. I went through the original wiring and re taped it. I also removed the stock starter solenoid and direct wired to solenoid on the starter. I must have messed something up as not the start function on the original key does not work. Just another thing to figure out.
I am actually really impressed that the truck starts. It has been alot of wiring and combing alot of different parts to make this work. The local Haltech rep gave me a base tune and it seems to be working. They have been awesome so far to deal with. Highly recommend them. Getting closer.
Local Boy
Full Member
What you have built is no easy task...for sure!
Good to hear you got some support... With the base tune, most of the long tedious work of setting up all the tables from scratch is done for you... That's a HUGE time saver!
I'm excited for you, Brutha!
Post up some pic's when you get it out for some shake down test hits!
Good Luck!
Aloha
Good to hear you got some support... With the base tune, most of the long tedious work of setting up all the tables from scratch is done for you... That's a HUGE time saver!
I'm excited for you, Brutha!
Post up some pic's when you get it out for some shake down test hits!
Good Luck!
Aloha
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2013
- Messages
- 1,180
