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5.0 EFI runs like dookie. Need help, please!

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
So after nearly 6 years of ownership I FINALLY was able to drive this EB out of my garage and down the road. I must say, it runs like garbage. The engine in question is a supposed early 90's 5.0 which came out of a Mustang GT which an acquaintance of mine bought to make a drag car out of. He brought the car home, made a couple hot laps around his neighborhood, and yanked the engine. He said it ran great. I cannot refer back to him on any of this info as he has since passed away. He spit out some specs on the engine, but I can only assume it was what the previous owner told him. What I was told is that it has one of the Ford Racing alphabet cams in it (not an E303 or a B303. I believe it is an F303 or an X303) and supposedly slightly higher compression. What I do know it has is: GT40P heads, GT40 upper and lower intake from a 5.0 Explorer, 70mm Professional Products throttle body, 70mm Pro-M MAF (calibrated for 24lb/hr injectors), 24lb/hr Trick Flow TFX fuel injectors, a Painless Performance 60510 Ford EFI wire harness, Aeromotive Phantom 200 in-tank fuel system with 3/8" hard line and -6 AN run to the factory Ford fuel rails and regulator (38-40PSI at idle). The throttle body, MAF, and injectors were my add-ons as the engine should happily support them with the induction and camshaft it is running. Both O2 sensors are new. If I'm not mistaken, the computer is an A9P. It came with the engine when I bought it.

So, on to the issues. Idle is expectedly erratic due to the cam profile. Stalling at idle is a bit of an issue though. At a steady cruise RPM just under 3000 it likes to chug and fart and just generally sound rich, but the spark plugs are not showing a rich condition. At wide open throttle I can feel it erratically making power and feeling like its breaking up some. Doesn't have the power it should IMO. One factor that throws a red flag for me is that I cannot get the check engine light to illuminate, not even during the bulb check. The light itself is good, just doesn't receive power from the computer.

I ran a dry, cold compression test today on all cylinders because there feels like a slight vibration or soft misfire (I can't honestly tell) which I thought may be engine mechanical related. Compression ranged between 115PSI to 125PSI with a goofy reading from #6 cylinder of 135PSI. This seemed low until taking into account the overlap of the aggressive cam profile.

Ignition timing is set at 12 degrees before TDC with the spout disconnected.

I am currently still running the 3.50 gears with 33" tires. I plan to swap to a 4.10 or 4.56 but haven't gotten there yet. I am running a freshly rebuilt C4 with a 3000 RPM converter from PTC. Maddog outside of the frame rail headers into Flowmaster super 40s. O2 sensors are in the header collectors (mid-length headers).

If anybody can offer any insight, I would sincerely appreciate it. I wasn't raised in a blue oval family and I am not at all familiar with the EEC series' of engine management.
 

Jebus

Full Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
303
Loc.
Longview, WA
One factor that throws a red flag for me is that I cannot get the check engine light to illuminate, not even during the bulb check. The light itself is good, just doesn't receive power from the computer.

The check engine light, MIL, is sourced from 12v and the computer "sinks" the lamp's ground to illuminate.
 

ransil

Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Messages
8,124
that is a lot of mods, probably needs a dyno tune

pull codes and check for vacuum leaks first
 

Boss Hugg

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,193
Without reading further...I got to "Professional Products throttle body" and I instinctively think that's your problem. IIRC, that brand producted intake manifolds that were so porous that they leaked vacuum. I would not doubt their other products were of the same quality. I'll continue reading now.
 

Timmy390

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,688
Loc.
Conway, AR
At the least you need a tune.......

I would swap the T-body as suggested.

What Mass Air sensor you running?

Tim
 

Boss Hugg

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
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Messages
2,193
The check engine light, MIL, is sourced from 12v and the computer "sinks" the lamp's ground to illuminate.

What Jebus means is the check engine light should have 12v supplied from a fuse or something and the ground goes to the computer. The computer is a ground switch that turns the light on.

I'm wondering if the computer needs to flashed for the 24lb injectors?
 

Tiko433

Contributor
I know just enough to be dangerous
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,858
Loc.
South West Florida
Also ..You did not mention the brand of MAF . My tuner only trusted a Ford MAF. I would take it to a tuner.
 

BanditBronco

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
690
It definitely needs a piggy back chip and a tune with that amount of aftermarket parts. I hope you can find a tuner in your neck of the woods that can still tune an OBD I setup they are a dying breed.
 
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tonytheplumber

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
What Jebus means is the check engine light should have 12v supplied from a fuse or something and the ground goes to the computer. The computer is a ground switch that turns the light on.

I'm wondering if the computer needs to flashed for the 24lb injectors?

The Painless harness has a pair of leads that are tagged "check engine light". I have to assume that one would be positive and one negative?
 
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tonytheplumber

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
It definitely needs a piggy back chip and a tune with that amount of aftermarket parts. I hope you can find a tuner in your neck of the woods that can still tune an OBD I setup they are a dying breed.

And that is something I could never get a clear answer on. As mentioned, I'm not a well versed Ford guy, but on the GMs of that era they use a PROM (Programmable Read Only Memory) "chip". Of which, custom versions are available. I reached out to a guy I know to see if he's got a referral for a tuner. He's an old Fox body guy. I'll see what he comes up with.
 
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tonytheplumber

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
that is a lot of mods, probably needs a dyno tune

pull codes and check for vacuum leaks first

I've been all over it checking for vacuum leaks. All unused ports are plugged and gaskets are not leaking, to my knowledge.

I do not currently own a code reader of any sort, and since the MIL is inoperable I cannot read code through it.
 
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tonytheplumber

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
Without reading further...I got to "Professional Products throttle body" and I instinctively think that's your problem. IIRC, that brand producted intake manifolds that were so porous that they leaked vacuum. I would not doubt their other products were of the same quality. I'll continue reading now.

Crap. That is the brand suggested to me by an acquaintance. :(
 

Timmy390

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,688
Loc.
Conway, AR
To tune the old Ford stuff yourself, you need a "Quarter Horse" and some software. Oh and an understanding of how the program EFI tables.
https://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html

Most of us just run a "chip" that plugs into the side of the ECM and overrides the factory programming.

EFIGuy is the man for this. He's done 100's of chips and wiring harnesses too. All you need to do is tell him what you have as in cam, heads, compression ratio, injectors, intake (upper and lower), T-body and MAS. Send him the ECM and he will burn you a custom chip. Yes he does charge a fee but his support after burn is great.

Tim
 

Timmy390

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Jan 1, 2011
Messages
5,688
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Conway, AR
The issue is you've added parts to the system the ECM can't compensate for. It has to be programmed to work with the new injectors and T-body and I suspect the cam.

Many Stang guys have issues with the B and E cam and if you have the F then that's not going to play well with stock.

Tim
 

904Bronco

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
5,891
Loc.
San Martin, CA
So the check engine light gets 12v power from the ignition switch in run and start. As stated the ECU provides the ground.
So one of those wires in the painless harness for the check engine light should have power to it during the described times.

You running a VSS in the C4? Is there wiring for that?
Usually the EFI harness has a few wires that can be changed depending on whether you have a manual or Auto tranny. Are they in the correct position for your auto?

The Pro M folks are a good group, as are their products. So if it is calibrated for 24lbs injectors, you should be good there.
Any chance the MAF got dirty from sitting or from an over oiled air cleaner?

Again, as others have stated, not a Fan of the Alphabet cams in a Bronco. You may have to pull the timing cover to get the part numbers off the end of the cam to be sure what you have.

Most definitely need a tune, which will be a piggyback chip. Too many changes for the ECU to compensate for.

EFI Guy is the person you need to chat with... Garry will hook you up.
 

Boss Hugg

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
2,193
The Painless harness has a pair of leads that are tagged "check engine light". I have to assume that one would be positive and one negative?



Last thing I feel I can add— are you using an LED for CEL? Led lights only burn with current going one way. Maybe you’ve got the led backwards??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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tonytheplumber

tonytheplumber

Jr. Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
114
Loc.
Lowell, IN
To tune the old Ford stuff yourself, you need a "Quarter Horse" and some software. Oh and an understanding of how the program EFI tables.
https://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html

Most of us just run a "chip" that plugs into the side of the ECM and overrides the factory programming.

EFIGuy is the man for this. He's done 100's of chips and wiring harnesses too. All you need to do is tell him what you have as in cam, heads, compression ratio, injectors, intake (upper and lower), T-body and MAS. Send him the ECM and he will burn you a custom chip. Yes he does charge a fee but his support after burn is great.

Tim

Yep, I will NOT be programming it myself. There are some things I am eager to learn. That would not be one of them. I'll message EFIGuy in regard to a chip. I will have a hiccup trying to tell him what the compression ratio is and I would have to guess at the cam model. I'm really close to yanking the engine this weekend so I can disassemble and confirm what I have. If I do that I will likely swap the cam for a more modern grind.
 
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