BP 347 has left the chat

[Torkman66]

@Broncobowsher yep. As a 30 year Air Force pilot, I can attest to how meticulous they are with engine performance and reliability in aircraft. When you get an “engine light” at 30,000 feet and 500 knots, can’t really pull over and call for a tow. I have more respect for my mx brothers who kept my bird flying than just about anybody else.

 

[73azbronco]

aborts fully loaded.

 

[nvrstuk]

"buzzsaw"? No way! To me this is just a discussion on different theories of the benefits (or lack of) of priming an engine before the first ever start up. OP's engine has already been started so unless he tears the short block apart he's fine which I think we all agree on.

I pulled a quote from James last quote below and want to learn here and this is why I keep asking questions...

HOW can spinning the oil pump without the crank rotating NOT put a film of oil around every main bearing in the crank, rod bearing on the crank and cam bearing journals? I always rotate the crank by hand maybe a complete rotation with a ratchet just to help but remember that bearing surfaces are always covering these oil flow passages thru the crank, rods, cam, etc so this extra step (1/2 or 1 complete rotation) only potentially aids in flow. Oil is pressurized thru these oil passages and gets pushed thru them coating these surfaces. Explain how this doesn't happen at 40-50psi??? The oil filter gets filled and pressurized, oil is flowing up thru the pushrods so how can it not be flowing
"Removing the distributor and spinning the oil pump with a drill motor if the crankshaft isn’t turning is the functional equivalent to splashing it with a squirt can.

I'll bet one of these MotorTrend type video channels has done this and documented it one way or the other.

Anybody seen one of these? Would love to see it. Save some work on trying to crank the engine over by hand even just one revolution (always a royal pain) and not having to pre lube. Thanks.
Again, this is not a buzz saw or an argument to me. Just trying to find out if this methodology that we've been practicing for several decades is a waste of time or not.

 

[nvrstuk]

I think I just replied to a message that isn't there anymore...



I'm with ya on some points 100% James, just wanting to learn more...

You asked if I have a background in hydrodynamic lubrication & I have no background in hydrodynamic lubrication-hence all the questions.

I easily understand the "float" part of your conversation with full pressure being achieved asap with rotation of the crankshaft and oil being pressurized to achieve that... and throughout this conversation I've never doubted that is what we ultimately want but, like I mentioned earlier... that is not happening in 2 seconds or even 30 seconds on most backyard & small shop stsrtups on new rebuilt engines that have not been run b4.
Hence my mechanics stance on needing SOME kind of oil film between any/all rotating surfaces b4 it's cranked & sputtered & coughed & backfired for 5-30 seconds with loading on most of those parts. A film like we've both discussed is much better than no film at all under partial load or backfires upon a dry start-up.

Your background in this definitely surpasses mine and I'm not doubting that, but I will continue to question how no oil film and no oil pressure under cranking load as compression is being built & cylinders are or might be firing for 5 to 10 seconds (or whatever amount of time it takes for the pump to create pressure) can be easier on dry metal parts than not rotating those dry metal-to-metal parts and having a film pumped in between them and around them by priming the oil pump with a drill and rotating the crankshaft up to one revolution.

I'm just gonna have to see it on paper or in a well documented & substantiated video.

 

[steelworker77]

Back on the road!

This motor is loads quieter.
Only thing I noticed and I will need to call them tomorrow is they reused my same distributor and now the vac advance is not working. They left the same 18* bushing and spring setup i had in it alone and its set at 15/33 but the vac advance is now unresponsive. I used to run it to full manifold vacuum for 25* inital timing but nada. I have 14" measured and it pulls the plate inside but it doesn't advance the timing at all. Not sure what that means. I have it set so im all in at 33 at 2800 rpms.

Besides that seems to run fine.

 

[ntsqd]

Not sure that I understand the vacuum advance problem. Pulling a vacuum on the advance diaphragm causes the points/pick-up plate to move but doesn't change the timing?

Some non-pressurized hydro-dynamic bearings sit in a very shallow oil bath and the spinning of the shaft will pull oil into the journal. This is exactly how the bearings in the 300 MegaWatt steam turbine generator that I worked on worked. There was a pump that moved cool oil into the bath and the over-flow spilled over out of the bath, but the bearings were not pressurized.

As far as pre-lubing a new engine goes, I see it like this:
You're starting with a totally dry engine. At no other time in it's life will it be totally dry, not even after sitting for months. And engines that have sat for a long time, don't we tend to have to crank them for longer than normal before ignition occurs? If it's been years, don't we tend to pull the plugs and spin it over that way?
Spinning with no oil pressure isn't a huge concern unless it's going to happen for a long period of time. Spinning under load with no oil pressure is a much larger concern.
The drag race Boss 302 that I crewed on had an oil pressure switch that grounded the magneto if there wasn't enough oil pressure. Normal start up practice was to spin it over until the switch un-grounded the mag, at which point it would start.

 

[steelworker77]

Not sure if something was sticking inside of it or what. Kept playing with it with a hand pump and something seemed to free up and now it works. They are sending me a new one as well so will more than likely just swap it out. Besides that it seems to run good. I did retorque the intake manifold once after a few drives. Will change the oil at 500 miles which shouldnt take long as my wifes round trip to work is 60 miles and Im sure she will take it everyday with the weather being nice. Swapping from the 180 to the 195* thermostat seemed to help get some heat in it as well. Hovering right around 190-195 in 80* weather. The most it climbed to was a hair over 195 sitting in traffic for awhile.

So far so good. Forgot how much fun it was to drive.

Got a few things on the winter list to do to it but for now just gonna drive the shit out of it.

 

[Grey owl]

No desire to walk into a buzz saw here....but i also have a BP 302. The instructions clearly discuss priming the engine before first crank. I too thought, geez, they ran this on a dyno, seems it is no different than my car sitting a month while I'm on vacation. But the point is actually more simple...your motor is still under warranty. Follow their directions. Whether it actually helps or not is beside the point. And although this has been a terrible thing you have gone through, I am very happy to hear you have a newly built motor sitting in your garage. So, fact: they did stand by their warranty even though it caused some gnashing of teeth...you have a fresh motor. Prime it as they suggest, run it 500 miles, change oil, enjoy. That's what i did and so far so good.

And for the record @Wallajw , I see you are new to this forum. @jamesroney has forgotten more about engineering cars, parts, builds, engines, drive trains, etc. than most have ever known in a lifetime. Your comment regarding AI was not accurate and if you knew James, you would know that he is brilliant, needs no help with words (big or small) and if I were building a truck where every part needed to be machined from raw steel, there is one person who would be on that team...yep, James. Not sure your back ground, but please know that James, (although a bit direct and sometimes abrasive is extremely qualified and has zero need for AI...in fact I think Chat GPT asks him questions. So, we accept his commentary with a smile...and a notepad.

Well in they're defense they don't know if its going to sit for two weeks or two years before being fired. If they say prime first then prime it.

 

[steelworker77]

Well that was really short lived. Someone pulled directly out in front her this morning while doing avout 35-40mph. My wife is fine. The guy in the wrx was missing the front half of his car. Completely admitted he never saw her and was his fault. Mechanically it sheared the pitmarm off, broke a hydroboost line and possibly bent the sway bar. Body is really bad. The tdk frame did an awesome job and am glad its as beefed up In the front as it is. Waiting to see what insurance is going to do. Can't really do anything but laugh at this point.....

 

[dmoses42]

Man, you have had some terrible luck. Glad the wife is ok, and I hope the insurance company treats you well. That really sucks.

 

[LUBr LuvR]

Can’t even believe this……so glad your wife is OK. Hope the insurance co handles it quickly and fairly. You should buy some lottery tickets, long overdue for some good luck!!

 

[nvrstuk]

Soooo sorry to hear this! Dang...

Glad your wife is OK!!!

 

[ntsqd]

Can not like.

 

[Teal68]

Dang man!! Glad your wife is okay!

 

[904Bronco]

Chit, glad the Wife is okay and the other Driver is accepting fault. Good luck with the Insurance folks, and Sorry Brother

 

[Torkman66]

Bummer. Glad she is ok. But I’m sure it was a difficult experience for her. Hopefully insurance will acknowledge some value. I guess the one upside is now you get to have some more bronco bromance time getting truck fixed up. Wished I was near where your from. Would be happy to help. Keep us posted.

 

[steelworker77]

Luckily I do have good classic insurance with an agreed value of I believe 90k. The tub itself is pretty destroyed. It shoved a good part of it back and ripped it right off the body mounts. The tow truck driver is a good friend who also does classic restorations at there business and agreed it needs a new body and not worth fixing. He seems to think they are just going to total it then I will have the option to buy it back it then fix it and have an enhanced inspection done or take the money. I am supposed to hear from an adjuster in the next 48hrs so hopefully this doesnt drag out. Its killing me not being able to start tearing into and just letting it sit there. I am 3 hrs from Northeast Classic so if I do need a body it will more than likely just come from him. I was briefly looking at other bronco's for sale on the internet last night and while a few were nicely done most of them were such hack work asking big money that I wouldnt be happy with. If I keep this at least I know what I have.

 

[toddz69]

This is gut-wrenching. I'm glad your wife is OK and hopefully things will work out OK with insurance for you.

Todd Z.

 

[Jdgephar]

Glad everyone was okay. I started noticing more and more people pulling out in front of me in my little corner of the world. I added daytime running headlights to my Bronco. Seems to have made me more noticeable, as I haven't had any close calls lately. I don't know how you miss a giant blue object in the first place.

 

[steelworker77]

It was happening multiple times a day in that thing. I dont understand how you dont see a big orange brick rolling at you. The cops were super cool about it and said its basically demolition derby out on the road anymore.