Bronco won't start - need advice!

[abrush]

I recently purchased a 1970 Bronco with a 289 engine. I was told that the engine was recently rebuilt but it was not wired so at the time I never heard it run. The engine was real clean and painted nicely so it seemed believable at the time. After fixing someones wiring disaster I got the engine to turn over but haven't gotten it to start. We have checked and we are getting both spark and fuel. We have checked the timing twice now and it is correct. However we can't even get it to pop like it wants to start. After looking into a couple things we found that the Bronco was severely flooded. We removed all the spark plugs and turned the engine over and fuel flew out of the cylinders like a garden hose! We disconnected the fuel line and put the spark plugs back in but it still doesn't sound like it is even trying to start. So my question is.. is it possible it is still that flooded or am I looking at another issue? My dad suggessted that the timing chain may have not been put on properly if the guy that rebuilt the engine didn't know that they go on a certain way but before I tear the front of the engine apart I thought I would check for suggestions here. We did check the compression and it was good on all cylinders.

 

[bronc50]

is the float on the carb stuck open so it just pumps fuel into the cylenders

 

[BlackHorse]

My guess is timing. Pull #1 plug and make sure that the rotor is in the right spot on the compression stroke at TDC.

 

[Viperwolf1]

My guess is timing. Pull #1 plug and make sure that the rotor is in the right spot on the compression stroke at TDC.

You can use a timing light on it while it cranks over. Set it about 10 BTC. Also if you had that much fuel in the cylinders it'd be a good idea to change the oil before you get it running.

 

[abrush]

I know the timing is right. We have checked it a few times now. The rotor does point to the number one cylinder at TDC. I am going to buy new spark plugs and try those as the other ones may have gotten so wet that they are no good. As for the carb I haven't looked into the float as I disconnected the fuel line for now. It is an Edelbrock 1406 and approximately 6 months old. A guy upgraded to a bigger carb and I acquired it from him.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I know the timing is right. We have checked it a few times now. The rotor does point to the number one cylinder at TDC. I am going to buy new spark plugs and try those as the other ones may have gotten so wet that they are no good. As for the carb I haven't looked into the float as I disconnected the fuel line for now. It is an Edelbrock 1406 and approximately 6 months old. A guy upgraded to a bigger carb and I acquired it from him.

#1 at TDC doesn't mean squat. It has to be TDC #1 COMPRESSION STROKE.
Speaking of compression, does it have any?
If the cylinders were flooded as bad as you describe, they are dry. I would give a shot of oil down each hole before going any further. Severe cylinder wall damage could occur by cranking the engine with fresh cylinder walls that have had the oil washed off by gasoline. And it will need an oil change as well.

 

[cgbexec]

Once you get the oil changed, squirt oil in the cylinders, install the plugs, make sure you are set at # 1 TDC compression, fix the carb float - Now use a shot of starting fluid. If it fires on starting fluid and not gasoline, then I would say it is a carb problem.

 

[Wyflyer]

#1 at TDC doesn't mean squat. It has to be TDC #1 COMPRESSION STROKE.
Speaking of compression, does it have any?
If the cylinders were flooded as bad as you describe, they are dry. I would give a shot of oil down each hole before going any further. Severe cylinder wall damage could occur by cranking the engine with fresh cylinder walls that have had the oil washed off by gasoline. And it will need an oil change as well.

Agreed. This was my first thought also. This seems to be one of the biggest problems people have on first starting after rebuild.

I'd pull a valve cover and turn it slowly. This is what you should see if it's timed right.
#1 cylinder
piston rises with exhaust valve opening. (exhaust stroke)
Piston reaches the top.
Piston falls and intake valve opens (intake stroke)
Piston down, intake valve closing.
Piston rises intake valve closed (compression)
Stop with the piston on top.
Now check the distributor for ignition on #1 cylinder

 

[Broncobowsher]

Agreed. This was my first thought also. This seems to be one of the biggest problems people have on first starting after rebuild.

I'd pull a valve cover and turn it slowly. This is what you should see if it's timed right.
#1 cylinder
piston rises with exhaust valve opening. (exhaust stroke)
Piston reaches the top.
Piston falls and intake valve opens (intake stroke)
Piston down, intake valve closing.
Piston rises intake valve closed (compression)
Stop with the piston on top.
Now check the distributor for ignition on #1 cylinder

or put your thumb over the spark plug hole. When the pressure builds as you reach TDC #1 that is the compression stroke. You will feel it.

There is also a chance that the valves are hanging open, so no compression at all. This could be caused by a whole list of things. Milled heads/block, pushrods for the differnt style rocker arms, tightening adjustable valvetrain as it it was positive stop.

 

[blubuckaroo]

Lots of unknowns here. Start with the easy stuff first.
Did you check for spark? If you don't have a good spark you will flood the engine while trying to start it.
You know you are getting fuel and you know you have compression so you should at least get a pop or something even if the timing was off a little or even 180* off.

 

[DirtDonk]

Was the engine ever run, according to the previous owner? If not, then you're going to have to break in the cam as soon as you have it running.
In other words, no idling, no tweaking. Nothing other than running it at a higher rpm around 2500 for at least twenty to thirty minutes before you can mess with the idle and the timing and such.
If you have to mess with something critical, such as a vacuum or fuel leak, then shut it off first, then mess with it, then re-start it and run up the rpms for the remainder of your half-hour of run-time.
Sorry for the list. If it's already been run, you don't need to do all that. Hopefully the PO did though!
You said you veridied there was spark. Was it white and strong? Or blue and weak? Consistent? Skipping any beats? Did you verify at the plugs, or just at the coil? Maybe make sure they're firing at the plugs too, next time you have some of them out.

For mild flooding (not the huge flooding issue you had) you can get through it by opening the carb all the way. Don't pump it, just hold it open while you're cranking. Eventually the excess fuel is passed through the engine and the additional air coming in will allow it to start. Once it fires, you might have to hold the throttle open a bit more than normal until the engine burns off any remaining excess and revs up. Then you can settle down to a normal routine.

Paul

 

[av bronco]

Did you fix the flooding problem after you pulled the plugs, otherwise its gonna keep pumping gas into the motor, also your oil is probably super dilluted with gas (not good break in oil!)

 

[Pa PITT]

plugs

If it was flooded that bad I'd just put in a new set of plugs and keep the old ones to use later ...put in the new plugs and keep the old ones and give it a shot of either ...I had a dodge one time that had set before I got it and the needle was stuck so bad..It would start on either but not run ...You'll get there .

 

[Explorer]

You say you have spark, but did you check that it is actually firing the plugs, not just spark to the plugs?

 

[abrush]

O.k. I will try to follow up on all your questions.

Broncobowsher- Yes, it has compression. We did a compression test to verify. I have not had time to work on it for a few days, due to the holidays, but plan on changing the oil before cranking it over again. As for the timing we used a timing light as well and everything seemed to be in check.

blubuckaroo - We do have spark at the plugs. 1st thing we did to check was pull a plug to verify. The spark was good and consistent.

DirtDonk- The previous owner I purchased the Bronco from bought it from another guy but never had time to work on it. Therefore I do not know if it ever ran. It hasn't since I had it and I know the last guy never messed with it. He was told from the guy that he bought it from had just rebuilt the engine. However, the engine was not wired at the time to run. I had to do that so I am assuming it never ran.

PAPITT - I just put new spark plugs in. I am going to run to the store tonight to get some oil so I can change it out.

 

[brewchief]

If the engine hasn't been run to break in the cam you need to add a break in additive or you will risk ruining the cam, the new oils don't have the zinc needed by a flat tappet cam. This may be to late if the assembly lube is all washed off, I'd still take all the precautions you can, you may get lucky.


Brewchief;D

 

[abrush]

Well I found the problem the other day and unfortantely it isn't good. I went to change the oil and water came pouring out. There was so much water in the pan that it first ran out clear before turning a dirty water color. I do not know the history of this engine and obvioulsy whomever rebuilt it didn't know what they were doing. So here is the next question....

My dad says to take off the heads and just put new gaskets in but my concern is that a head could be cracked or even worse, the block could. Is there anyway to tell when the heads are removed? Myself personally am thinking this would be a great time to upgrade to a windsor but it would save a few bucks if all the engine needs is head gaskets. I suppose I will take the heads off and see if the gaskets are pinched. If not, I don't know where to go from there.

 

[av bronco]

That sucks, was the hood off and the carb exposed to outside elemets? you gotta pull the heads, you might want to have the heads checked for cracks, if it blew a head gasket it probably got pretty hot. if your mechanical skills are pretty good id pull the plugs and leave the drain plug out & pressurise the rad. (no more then 15 psi) & see what cyl. or where the water is going to.

 

[Explorer]

Just had same exact thing. Pull the intake and heads. I had a broke bolt on one head right at the water crossover. Just leaking into oil not the cylinders.

 

[abrush]

Thanks guys. I am going to pull the heads tomorrow and see what I find out. I don't think the engine overheated and blew a head gasket but rather the guy that put the gaskets in pinched one or didn't seal it correctly. The only reason I believe this was because the Bronco was leaking water from the back of the intake when I bought it so I pulled intake off to replace it with a Edelbrock and the gasket was badly pinched. I knew right then that was the reason I had water leaking. Unfortanetly I don't think the guy who rebuilt it knew much of what he was doing after seeing how that gasket was on and now my oil pan having water in it. My brother has a good running 351 Windsor he will sell me for $200 so I am contemplating going that route. The extra power would be nice also.