Dan Wheeler's Remote TFI ("Closed Bowl") Conversion Thread

[DanWheeler]

Hi all, I haven't been on here in quite a while mostly because things have been going well and I haven't made any major changes but I'm having some trouble this spring with my EFI.

A while back I moved my TFI to the fender and put it on a heat sink. I did it the ghetto way just using the same TFI and some spade connectors but they are not making a good connection giving me no-start headaches.

I want to move to the "closed-bowl" distributor for a 94 Mustang and I found this old thread:
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197853

but I still can't figure out which TFI module I should be using if I bought this distributor:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850410

I have A9P and C3W ECUs. How do I figure out if I want push start (grey TFI) or computer controlled dwell (black) TFI? I have grey now.

I think I can use the diagrams from the old thread to figure out how to run the cables - just need to order the right parts.

thanks!
Dan

 

[Viperwolf1]

I was looking at your old build thread today. No pictures in it now.

There doesn't appear to be any difference in the distributor connector pinout between the grey and black module so I say use the grey to keep your engine harness simpler.

 

[DanWheeler]

I was looking at your old build thread today. No pictures in it now.

There doesn't appear to be any difference in the distributor connector pinout between the grey and black module so I say use the grey to keep your engine harness simpler.

yeah, the smugmug site hosting all my pics was $45/year and I wasn't doing much else with it so I let it expire I need to sit down and re-do those threads with a more reliable image source.

hmm, yeah - you're right the dist connector is the same, just the TFI has one small difference which is that the 3rd pin from the top in the diagram goes to +12v on start only for the gray but goes to EEC pin 4 for the black. That's the only thing I see different. I'm not sure if my current "grey" harness has the 22K ohm resistor already in place. RJM's website seems to have disappeared so I don't have the wiring diagram to check.

so I should just get a grey remote TFI then without the 3 spade connectors?

 

[Viperwolf1]

The resistor on the RJM harness is very close to the ECM connector. You can test for it with an ohmmeter.

I'd use a remote grey module. Keep it simple.

 

[DanWheeler]

Thank, VW. I think I've got the necessary wiring changes figure out now. It's got me thinking... pins 2, 3 and 5 on the TFI plug require no change. Pin 1 (EEC 56 PIP) just needs a splice to pin 8 on the distributor, pin 4 (+12V from ignition) just needs to splice to pin 1 on the distributor to give it power then pin 6 needs to go to pin 3 on the distributor through to pin 7 on the dist before going back to the EEC on pin 16.

I'll upload a diagram tomorrow but I'm thinking I may be able to make a 2" piece of cable that sits between the TFI plug and the TFI then hanging off that would be a 5' shielded cable that runs over to the distributor... wonder if this could be mass produced and sold as a kit?

Dan

 

[rjlougee]

wonder if this could be mass produced and sold as a kit? Dan

Ford lost a lawsuit over the dizzy mounted TFIs a couple years ago and as part of the recall they were retrofitting remote mounts. I would be looking to see what they produced to enable that, I'm sure they didn't pay a bunch of Techs to solder in haphazard wires...
Joe

 

[Steve83]

Because your EEC has no CCD output (for black ICM), you must use a push-start (gray) ICM. The engine will run either way, but it'll run better with gray.

SMN is down this morning, or I'd link you to a complete diagram.

 

[DanWheeler]

Thanks, Steve. Grey TFI it is then.

I've been doing a bunch of research tonight and come up with the following:

1. The Mustang guys are saying Rich Porter makes a good distributor. Ordered a 94 Mustang Rich Porter distributor from O'Reilly:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...=Search_02780_1134144_2508&pt=02780&ppt=C0334

2. Will get a grey ignition control module (TFI) from the local NAPA:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...gnition-Control-Module/_/R-ECHTP29_0167174697

3. After EXHAUSTIVE searching, finally stumbled upon what I believe to be the correct connector for the distributor (WPT-174 - halfway down the page below) and ordered a pigtail from Amazon.
http://forums.mustangandfords.com/m...987-50-stang-gray-black-8-pin-connector-help/

Now I just need some more shielded wire and I should be good to start cutting up my harness.

Questions about the shielding/ground:

1. The wiring diagrams show shielding on 16, 56 and 36 going back to the EEC. Should I assume those wires are already shielded from the TFI connector back to the EEC on my RJM harness? It doesn't appear to be from looking at the wire.

2. The closed bowl distributor needs ground on pins 2 and 6. Should I run a dedicated wire from pin 2/6 to chassis? Or is there something on the existing harness I can tie into? Pin 7 will be going back to EEC pin 16 for IGN GND... could I just tie the distributor pins 2, 6 and 7 all together at the distributor plug?

3. For the shielding ground, should I just connect the drain wire to chassis ground on one side of the shielded cable?

thanks for the help, guys.

Dan

 

[Viperwolf1]

1) I would think so since Ryan took the time to show it in the drawings. I haven't looked for this in one of his harnesses though.

2 and 3) In this factory diagram (I added the distributor connector pin numbers) you can see 2 and 6 provide the ground (through the distributor body) for the shielding. Also notice how the individual shielded sections are tied together and the ground is at a single common point.

 

[DanWheeler]

Aahhh.... I see I was thinking about it all wrong. Thanks, VW. I'll have to see if the RJM has a drain wire I can tie all my shielded parts from distributor 2/6 into.

Dan

 

[Steve83]

This is mostly from Ford:



Remember that aftermarket ICMs are not necessarily color-coded properly. Order them by year & application - not color.

 

[DanWheeler]

thanks, Steve.

so if I'm reading the diagrams right and this page that shows that only the PIP signal is different between remote mount and distributor mount TFIs:

http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC Help files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

It looks like pin 8 on the closed-bowl distributor (PIP OUT) connects to the wire that connects the remote TFI PIP IN back to the ECU PIP IN.

So... my old distributor mount TFI can be re-used as a remote mount unit? (with nothing plugged into hall effect gnd, power and PIP out?)

 

[Broncobowsher]

Quick heads up on the closed bowl '94 mustang distributor. It is slightly shorter than the older TFI mounted distributor. Just enough that it didn't clear the fuel rail in my application.

 

[DanWheeler]

Quick heads up on the closed bowl '94 mustang distributor. It is slightly shorter than the older TFI mounted distributor. Just enough that it didn't clear the fuel rail in my application.

Thanks, yeah I remember reading that somewhere too and it got delivered yesterday. I should find out tonight when I do a test fit.

 

[Steve83]

...old distributor mount TFI can be re-used as a remote mount unit? (with nothing plugged into hall effect gnd, power and PIP out?)

No, and why would you even want to??? If you use a dist-mount ICM, then all its terminals must be connected, regardless where it's mounted (to the dist, or remotely to a heat sink). You can't rewire the system for a remote ICM, and then plug in a dist-mount ICM instead.

And simply moving the dist-mount ICM off the dist is a lot of work for virtually no gain. If you want reliability, maintainability, & the ability to buy common parts for future repairs/replacements, then you should do it right: the way Ford did in '92. But be aware of the PIP circuit shielding issue:

 

[DanWheeler]

just finished up in the garage. My buddy and I did all the splicing and soldering into the existing harness. Left the dist. mount TFI as-is on the fender and it fired right up. Spark is advancing but I still need to take it for a test drive.

so just for clarification - I'm using a closed-bowl distributor (94 Mustang) and my gray distributor mount TFI on the fender with nothing connected to the 3 pins.

I've actually gained a lot here... I can walk into any parts store and order a 94 Mustang distributor and since I purchased a new male end of the round 8 pin connector, it will drop right in.

My TFI is on the fender (as it was) where it will stay cool but the only thing I have to connect is the 6-pin connector. No more ghetto spade connectors between the distributor and TFI.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I have actually done twin TFI. The distributor mounted one was simply a pass through to the remote mounted one that actually did the work. That was my final work around for the closed bowl distributor interfering with the fuel rail.

 

[bax]

Dont forget to shield your wires. I did a direct mount to remote mount. I have not had a module problem since. They just got too hot direct mounted.

 

[DanWheeler]

Dont forget to shield your wires. I did a direct mount to remote mount. I have not had a module problem since. They just got too hot direct mounted.

Yup, just for kicks, we made our own shielded wire. Wrapped a red, blue and two blacks, twisted, wrapped in foil, added a drain wire then that whole thing inserted into a fat piece of shrink tube. Only going a foot or two before tying into the main harness but it was fun making the shielded wire bundle.

About to head out to the garage for a test drive. If it works, I hope to do a write-up.

 

[DanWheeler]

ran some errands yesterday - all good! feeling much better about no more sketchy spade connections on the distributor.