Front End Alignment

[stefaned]

I’ve done some searching and it looks like there have been many questions regarding alignment. I did not see this specifically but suspect I could keep looking and find an answer..

I recently purchased a ‘72 Bronco that came with what I believe is a 3.5” lift, power steering and 33” tires. Since purchase I have replaced the stock steering with a Wildhorses Clydesdale steering / drag bar. I also modified the steering stabilizer brackets and installed a new Wildhorses stabilizer. Lastly I installed a track bar drop bracket but did not purchase an adjustable track bar. The drop bracket definitely made a big difference in centering everything.

Today I had the Bronco aligned and would appreciate your thoughts regarding anything I might want to check or be concerned with. As for driving, I haven’t driven it much only home from the alignment shop. In general it felt ok not different or better than before the upgrades. I expected it to feel more planted than before.

I should have also mentioned all of the bushings appear to be new. I did change the track bar bushings. The challenge I am having is determining what all was done to the Bronco prior to me purchasing and I am curious if the alignment data may shed some light on something I should check.

The results of the alignment are as follows:

Front Camber: Left 1.2, Right 0.8
Front Caster: Left 0.3, Right 0.1
Toe: Left 0.11, Right 0.11
Total Toe: 0.23
Steer Ahead: 0.00

Rear Camber: Left 0.5, Right 0.6
Rear Toe: Left -0.01, Right 0.21
Total Toe: 0.2
Thrust Angle. 0.11

I appreciate your thoughts / feedback.

 

[WILDHORSES]

With that caster (almost none) I would think it would be wandering to the point that it would not feel safe. I'm looking for more. Any idea what degree c-bushings are being used?

Jim

 

[stefaned]

Unfortunately, I do not know what c-bushings are currently installed. I just watched your video and will take a look when I get home to try and determine what might be installed. Worst case I’ll pull it apart and replace what is installed. Thanks!

 

[stefaned]

Since my last post I have learned 2 things..

1. Changing C-Bushings is more work than I realized. I keep thinking there has to be an easier way than what I have watched / read but realize if there was it would have already been figured out by someone on this forum.

2. My C-Bushings were definitely installed correctly and are not the original / stock. I can clearly see the raised bumps on the bottom side in the front and top side on the back. I do not know if they are 2, 4 or 7 degree.

Not sure what other options I have at this point but from everything I am reading the lack of caster is definitely impacting what I referred to as it not feeling planted.

I am going to reach out to the previous owner to see if he knows which bushings were installed. Not sure what I would prefer his answer answer to be.

Any other thoughts on what could possibly be causing the caster to be out, what I could check, etc??

Thanks again for all the guidance.

 

[stefaned]

Adding pictures of my c-bushings and front end components hoping someone spots something out of wack.

Is there anyway to tell what degree c-bushings are installed from the pictures. It may be the lighting or angles but one of the c-bushings looks different than the others.

 

[DirtDonk]

Nice looking setup ya got there!
Just looking at them, I'd have to say they are already 7 degree bushings. But because different manufacturers have slightly different shapes to the side flanges, it's hard to guarantee that.
What I'm looking at is how visible the offset inner sections are when viewed from the side. A 2 degree setup would hardly be visible, and a 4 is kind of yay or nay depending on who made them. But most that I've seen with that much offset were 7's.
Unfortunately!

And yes, this is all too common unfortunately, where the original caster readings were sub-ideal right from the factory. But back then, with tiny little tires and a stock height suspension and probably bias-ply tires, it was hardly noticeable and not unexpected since it was just a lowly utility-vehicle and wasn't supposed to handle good (from many people's perspective anyway).

But a major part of your current geometry issue is the pitman arm is stock. With your dropped trackbar bracket you're supposed to have a dropped pitman arm too (95% of the time) so that the track bar and drag link angles are parallel. Or as close as you can get them.

Take a measurement from the ground to the center of the upper and lower trackbar bolts, and from the ground to the center of the draglink pivot points (an imaginary center of the ball-n-socket joint) and see how they compare.
Looks from here like your draglink angle is too steep for the trackbar, but the camera angles are not conducive and the stabilizer shock is in the way.

Either way though, any lift over 2.5" can benefit from a dropped pitman arm and track bar bracket, and over 3" it's pretty much considered mandatory.
It's always something, right?%)

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and if I was just going by the angle of the pinion shaft I'd have said you were running a 2 or 4 degree bushing. Since your angle is so good now after the bushings and lift, it seems logical.
However, as we've learned here from many years of experience, the front ends from Dana were not exactly consistent and your angle may have been minimal to begin with. Your certainly not in danger of u-joint bind from the looks of it!

There are only three ways (edit: ok, four ways) of getting more caster:
1. Finding out you only have 2 degree bushings and substituting 7's instead (we wish!).
2. Radius arm drop brackets. A legitimate, but not well liked option. Last resort kind of thing.
3. A little of the old "cut-n-turn" action. That's where you grind through the major welds that hold the steering yokes to the outer ends of the axle tubes, rotate them so that the upper ball joint is tilted further back, then re-weld in the new, more desirable position.
(edit: 4. Radius arms with more caster built into them)

Here's hoping for the easy fix. But you would not be the first to own a Bronco that could not achieve that using normal methods. Lots of us have had to cut-n-turn the yokes.
It's actually the best way bar none. It's just not the easiest way.

Paul

 

[stefaned]

Thanks for the advice. I agree, I need a dropped pitman to clean-up the geometry.

I went ahead and ordered one which I hope to receive for a weekend install.

I am leaning towards the simplicity of the drop bracket as the "cut-n-turn" option is beyond my skill. How many degrees of added caster should I expect from the radius arm drop bracket?

 

[DirtDonk]

They're usually rated for 4° of additional positive caster.
The issues they have are ground clearance and added flex to the frame.
Taking away some ground clearance is not an issue unless you're going off road, but flex of the brackets, mounting points and other frame bits can add stress and some odd feelings to driving.

I'll say that probably for most, the issues are hardly noticeable. But they're there.
The harder you use your rig (old days, but not so much with people these days I'd say) the more the flex can cause damage. The more you drive on the street and become familiar with your Bronco, the more likely you are to feel just a little added "looseness" while driving.
Again, probably not much, and probably not noticed by 80% of owners. Still there though. The stronger you make the mounts the better.

But they'll definitely give you a known up-tick in caster by that 4 degrees.
Putting you right into the beginning of the sweet spot for Broncos.

Paul

 

[stefaned]

I’ve read on other posts that some have used adjustable caster bushings primarily ones offered by SPC (23012). I know this won’t get me where I need to be but any reason to not try these?

Is there a vendor who supports the forum who sells them?

 

[DirtDonk]

No reason not to use them that I can think of. Some people don't like them because of some dynamic of their design, but I don't remember what the complaint was. Someone will chime in on that I hope.

You're right that they won't get you where you need to go. They can be used to set camber as well, and that's how they're more often used in lieu of, or in addition to tapered camber shims that fit between the spindle and knuckle.

You could use some camber adjustment too since the driver's side could come down a little. From the 1.2 degrees listed, to perhaps .5 to .9 degrees. I forget which way cross-camber should go (higher reading on left or right?) but getting it down below one degree, but above zero can be a good thing for tire wear.

I did not look up the part number you listed, so is that a 1.5 degree offset bushing? More or less? If you use them for caster only, you're at 1.4 and 1.2 degrees positive at the most. This is definitely better, but until you get up to above 2 degrees you're not seeing most of the benefit.
Still, it's a step in the right direction.

You really will need to verify what bushings you have, in order to make the best decisions about this.

Paul

 

[stefaned]

Thanks to Wildhorses quick shipping I received my drop pitman arm today. They even reduced the shipping charges from what was originally quoted.

Now comes my dumb question for the day. I really don’t want to get an alignment considering I had one earlier in the week. Am I correct in assuming that I can change the pitman without impact alignment or steering wheel center? My thought is to remove the drag link side of the pitman first. Then as closely as possibly mark the position / angle of the installed pitman arm. I thought about marking the box or even using a piece of wire to mimic the current position. One marked I remove the old pitman arm and install the new one based on the marks. Once installed on the box end I would then adjust the drag link as needed to align to the pitman. I would do all this with the wheels on the ground to prevent them from moving.

Is there a better way?

Ed

 

[Jaybr]

The pitman arm should be keyed so the new one will go back in the exact same position. If you don’t change the length of the drag link, I would think the steering wheel will stay straight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DirtDonk]

I really don’t want to get an alignment considering I had one earlier in the week. Am I correct in assuming that I can change the pitman without impact alignment or steering wheel center?

Changing the pitman arm out for a dropped one will not change the basic alignment properties, such as caster, camber or toe-in. But it can have an effect on your steering box's on-center position.
The good news is that this is expected and desired, since lifting the suspension and leaving the stock pitman arm actually effects the steering box negatively. The dropped arm is supposed to put it back to center. It's not always a perfect match to every vehicle, but it's very close.

If you center the box and it all lines up, you're good to go. If you need to move the arm to get it to align, then an adjustable draglink is the primary solution to that. Something Ford should have done originally, but now it's made through the aftermarket. And you're in luck because you have one!

Before you remove the old arm, there are some additional steps you can do to make sure it's all dialed in:
1. Drive the vehicle into your work area and make sure that the wheels are pointed straight and the Bronco is tracking straight, no matter what position the steering wheel is in.
2. Remove the old pitman arm.
3. While counting the turns as precisely as you can, turn the steering wheel fully one direction until you feel it stop. Then turn back the other way until it stops. Make note of the number of turns it took to go lock-to-lock, and then turn it back exactly half way.
This is the center position of the box and is actually fairly important.
4. If the steering wheel is straight at this point, you're in business. If it's off to one side or the other, you will need to remove the steering wheel and re-install it straight ahead to match the box.
5. Install the new pitman arm straight back. Some were one spline to the driver's side, but in later years Ford changed that to straight back by changing the keyed spline location.
6. With the box still centered, adjust the draglink so that it fits right into the hole of the pitman arm, without having to move the box to line it up.
7. Lock it all down and you're good to go.

My thought is to remove the drag link side of the pitman first. Then as closely as possibly mark the position / angle of the installed pitman arm. I thought about marking the box or even using a piece of wire to mimic the current position. One marked I remove the old pitman arm and install the new one based on the marks. Once installed on the box end I would then adjust the drag link as needed to align to the pitman. I would do all this with the wheels on the ground to prevent them from moving.
Is there a better way?

You pretty much got it. You don't necessarily have to mark anything if you use the steps I described above. You can eyeball the arm straight back, sighting along the frame.
And starting from scratch with the wheels pointed straight ahead confirms that this is correct from the beginning, in case it was not before.
If it was already perfect then it really does not take any more time or thought to get it right.

And once you start driving it and find the steering wheel is off slightly, simply fine-tune the adjustment of the draglink.
Because you took the step to verify the center position of the box and that the steering wheel matched, you can from now on always know that your steering wheel is an accurate indicator of the gearbox.

The pitman arm should be keyed so the new one will go back in the exact same position.

Correct with a stock arm, or stock replacement. Our dropped arm for the Early Bronco is not keyed so can actually go in any position that it fits. But straight-back is pretty easy to see, so not having keyed splines is not an issue.
I believe that our dropped arm for the full-size Bronco (also for use with the '76 and '77 EB's sometimes) #791275 does I believe still have the keyed alignment splines.

Paul

 

[DocBombay]

I just added an inch, moving from 3'5 to 4.5 suspension lift with an inch body lift, while adding a front sway bar. I ran into similar issues. Hit a bump on the freeway and it changes lanes : ) Just rebuilt the steering column and box to get rid of steering play. I am now upgrading to Bilstein shocks and radius arm drop brackets from WH. I already had the right pitman arm, drag link etc. Hope this solves my probs which I think are mostly related to insufficient caster. I will stay tuned to see if you solve your similar issue.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey Doc, glad you finally joined us! Has the problem been going on awhile now?
Hope it gets fixed too. Not a lot of fun changing lanes when you don't want to!

We can discuss it here a bit, because even though the discussion is about stefaned's rig, what helps one might help another.
At the risk of mixing the two together, can you post up some pics of your steering linkage?
What other mods have you made?

Good luck. And welcome to the light too!
Oh, and as an aside, are you going to be able to make it to our Roundup at Wild Horses in a few weeks? Comin' up quick and is a great way to talk to owners, and look at other rigs that might have already gone through and fixed (or not) the same issue.

Hope to see you there.
And maybe even at the next local gathering.

Paul

 

[stefaned]

After a work trip, kids events, a few mistakes and great support from the Wildhorses team I was able to get the front end back together and go for a test drive. With the track bar and drag link running close to parallel it drove way, way better. I am sure additional caster would help but I am going to drive it like it is for a while. Thanks to everyone for the guidance!

 

[DonaldDouchebag]

Do extended radius arms or even the T-Rex arms help add caster?

 

[bchesley]

Oh, and if I was just going by the angle of the pinion shaft I'd have said you were running a 2 or 4 degree bushing. Since your angle is so good now after the bushings and lift, it seems logical.
However, as we've learned here from many years of experience, the front ends from Dana were not exactly consistent and your angle may have been minimal to begin with. Your certainly not in danger of u-joint bind from the looks of it!

There are only three ways of getting more caster:
1. Finding out you only have 2 degree bushings and substituting 7's instead (we wish!).
2. Radius arm drop brackets. A legitimate, but not well liked option. Last resort kind of thing.
3. A little of the old "cut-n-turn" action. That's where you grind through the major welds that hold the steering yokes to the outer ends of the axle tubes, rotate them so that the upper ball joint is tilted further back, then re-weld in the new, more desirable position.

Here's hoping for the easy fix. But you would not be the first to own a Bronco that could not achieve that using normal methods. Lots of us have had to cut-n-turn the yokes.
It's actually the best way bar none. It's just not the easiest way.

Paul

Cut and turn them and it will be done right. Pushing the bushing size for the sake of caster is a losing proposition. Set the pinion where you want it then cut and turn. It looks scary, but it’s really not bad. I’ve turned 3 different axles and it’s always worth the effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stefaned]

Thanks, I agree gaining more caster especially via the cut and turn method would be ideal. I honestly don't feel comfortable taking it on by myself. I unfortunately don't know anyone in the area who would take this project on with me. I did call a few local shops but unfortunately none of them were willing to do this. If anyone knows a shop in upstate SC or has experience cutting and turning (and wants to give me a hand) send me a name.

I did a little digging and it does sound like the T-Rex arms would definitely help by giving me approximately 4.25 degrees of additional caster. I feel comfortable taking this on and ultimately may pull the trigger.

Other than being able to gain more caster (which is a probably enough reason) is there any benefits of cut and turn vs. T-Rex arms.

If I do either I would change out the coils, coil spring retainers, C-bushings and radius arm bushings. The shocks look to be relatively new Rancho RS5000's and I would most likely re-use them. A couple of questions:

1. Anything else I should change while the axle is dropped and the radius arms are out?
2. Should I switch to degreed radius arm bushings?

Thanks again!