Thinking of a 351W swap, things to look out for??

[Stefan]

Thank you!! I have a body lift already, but a rubber body might be a good way to go.

 

[jckkys]

The 351 swap is far easier and cheaper with the original 289-302 front dress and radiator. It all works with the 351. You just need the alternator and power steering adapters here;https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...289302-to-351w-alternator-power-steering-pump. That and a 351 oil pan and you're almost there. There's no reason to put parts from late model trucks in an early Bronco.
Sorry to hear you got ripped off while deployed. I want to thank you for you're service. As a Vet myself I want to offer any assistance I can. PM me.

 

[Stefan]

The 351 swap is far easier and cheaper with the original 289-302 front dress and radiator. It all works with the 351. You just need the alternator and power steering adapters here;https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...289302-to-351w-alternator-power-steering-pump. That and a 351 oil pan and you're almost there. There's no reason to put parts from late model trucks in an early Bronco.
Sorry to hear you got ripped off while deployed. I want to thank you for you're service. As a Vet myself I want to offer any assistance I can. PM me.

Thank you! I will say that it really sucked picking up my Bronco in that shape. It's hard getting motivated to tackle it again.
The big things I am looking at is a new rear end, transmission (I am looking at a 700R4) and I have to figure out the transfer case for it. Then comes the rewiring, some body work and paint.

So the 351W pan that comes with the 97 F150 won't work?

 

[bigmuddy]

The 351 swap is far easier and cheaper with the original 289-302 front dress and radiator. It all works with the 351. You just need the alternator and power steering adapters here;https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...289302-to-351w-alternator-power-steering-pump. That and a 351 oil pan and you're almost there. There's no reason to put parts from late model trucks in an early Bronco.
Sorry to hear you got ripped off while deployed. I want to thank you for you're service. As a Vet myself I want to offer any assistance I can. PM me.

Hmm, have you seen a late model explorer system in the bronco?

tons of clearance to the radiator, use one belt, brackets are beefier, clutch fan etc.. Unless, I wanted to stay factory, which your not if your adding a 351w, I would advocate swapping to the explorer front dress on every bronco.

 

[JWMcCrary]

Unless, I wanted to stay factory, which your not if your adding a 351w, I would advocate swapping to the explorer front dress on every bronco.

Agree with this 100%, big improvement

 

[jckkys]

I don't believe there's any real advantage to using any Explorer front dress parts, except to transfer your money to someone else who is advantaged. The idea that anybody here can define factory as having to keep everything original is ridiculous. If the parts you have because they came with the Bronco is somehow wrong when used with a 351 because it doesn't fit some weird orthodoxy is equally ridiculous. The simple fact is they work and work well and have since '66. Having 1 belt is no advantage. If it goes you don't go. With 2 belts, loosing one only means you need to get a new one after you drive to the parts store. The V-belts last a lot longer and are more dependable. The original 7 blade fan is as good as any.

 

[nvrstuk]

Man o man... there are SO many options for you... good luck! lol

Can you tell us more of what you "want" in this build? Like... do you like power? Are you wheeling mud or rocks or ?? What gas tank do you have (easier for EFI) or if doing mud with Exploder front dress you need an electric pump but you NEED a pressure reducer for it. Trans desired? No need for a D60 rear but a D60 frt yes- pro's/con's... 47 more questions but tell us more about your dreams with this build.

All great feedback on all the posts so far.

 

[jckkys]

There's nothing wrong with leaving an early Bronco, an early Bronco. Stefan stated in his first post that he plans to run a carburetor. That fact seems to be ignored. I've run a carburetor on my 351 since the early '80s and have no desire for EFI. A carburetor is easy. but requires a 351 intake. The best is a Ford intake from '69-'72. In '73 they went to EGR intakes. The 2 barrel is perfectly good, especially the OE 2100 carburetor. The after market 4 barrel intakes are almost all too tall to fit under the hood and the advantage of the 351 is low end torque. For that, the 2 barrel works just as well.

 

[nvrstuk]

??? No advantage to an Explorer front dress? Really? None? That's an interesting viewpoint...

 

[mustanggarage]

I struggled to get my engine to fit. I wanted to run this particular air breather however. so I ended up with a 2 inch body lift, and after doing that everything fit better. I am also using a manual transmission with wild horses clutch adapter. the explorer front dress is great. I have a Ron francis radiator set up for serpentine and wild horses hoses hooked up with no issue. Duffs true dual exhaust with long tube headers fit perfectly and give excellent clearance. in order to get the ac compressor installed you have to mount it to the explorer brackets and then mount the brackets to the engine. other than that it seems to fit like it was made to go there.

 

[73azbronco]

There's nothing wrong with leaving an early Bronco, an early Bronco. Stefan stated in his first post that he plans to run a carburetor. That fact seems to be ignored. I've run a carburetor on my 351 since the early '80s and have no desire for EFI. A carburetor is easy. but requires a 351 intake. The best is a Ford intake from '69-'72. In '73 they went to EGR intakes. The 2 barrel is perfectly good, especially the OE 2100 carburetor. The after market 4 barrel intakes are almost all too tall to fit under the hood and the advantage of the 351 is low end torque. For that, the 2 barrel works just as well.

look for torino late 60s early 70s v8 iron 4 barrel intake. I regret pulling mine off and giving it away, but how they managed to get it to sit that low was well amazing.

 

[gr8scott]

With 2 belts, loosing one only means you need to get a new one after you drive to the parts store.

Agreed, but only if you double up on the water pump. I've seen guys here running 1 v-belt around the water pump.
Either way you go, v-belt or serp, always carry spare(s).

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep. Legit arguments for both.
But for me, serp still wins every time. Well, the Explorer version specifically that is.

A distinct advantage to dual v-belts like was said, when one breaks and you can just keep going. That is as long as the broken one does not end up tangled up in the pulleys of course. In which case, the advantage narrows.
But a serpentine is so easy to change that if you loose one, you simply take a minute to put a replacement on and done and on your way again. But again, as long as it's not tangled and you're not in the middle of an emergency run. Otherwise all is good.
This is all assuming you keep a spare of course, which is what everyone should be doing anyway in my opinion. Whether it's v-belt or serpentine. I've kept spare belts in my kit for 50 years. It's just a natural thing to some.
After all, even dual v-belts can break, leaving you with the need for a spare.

But coming down to it, reliability or simplicity were never the original reasons for changing to a serp setup anyway. Although it can be argued which type is more reliable as far as the belts are concerned, I'd bet more people get more miles out of modern serpentine belts than they ever got out of v-belts. I know some that have chewed up serp belts sooner than v-belts, but most experiences were the opposite.

No, the original was for simplicity of changing just one belt and consistent performance without having to adjust them. Sometimes it was just something that came with a donor engine and got used. Simple decision and worked for many.
Then came the Explorer serp who's main claim to fame at first was offering an additional 3/4" between the radiator and water pump for electric fans or whatever else you wanted. That was a HUGE thing for some Bronco owners that needed more room for whatever reason. Then the benefit of it's efficient water pump, wicked strong fan and more efficient and quiet use of a fan clutch, and a truly clever design that reduces the amount of time wasted during routine repairs and maintenance. In addition to a fantastic alternator mounting method, and it's just one advantage after another.
You can finally replace a water pump without removing anything but the belt. You never have to tighten a loose slipping belt again. Easy add for on-board air, or even A/C if that's what you want. No additional brackets because it's all there in one clean tight package, still driven by just the one belt.
Ever tried adding some things and needing space for 3 v-belts on a Bronco? It's doable sometimes, but it's not fun!

The fact that you probably have to replace idlers and tensioners more often than anything else is not lost on users, I don't think. They probably start rattling about as often as you used to replace a v-belt.
It's just not a big enough problem to regret going Explorer.

I have one of each and like them both. Neither has ever let me down. But my next iteration is going to have the v-belts swapped out for yet another Explorer drive setup without regret.

Paul

 

[nvrstuk]

There was some class of hobbystocks or some race class that gobbled all those OE 4bbl 351W intakes up in the '80's. Had a couple locals always looking for them. One ran a junkyard

 

[jckkys]

The '69 351W 4 barrel intake was offered only in 1969 Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos, and Montegos. By 1970 Ford was pushing Clevelands as the 4 barrel choice. For this application a non EGR 2 barrel works as well, and is far easier to find. Again the best years are '69-'72. I use a 4 barrel 4100 with 480 CFM because the primary venturis are smaller than the 1.21" venturis in a 351 sized 2100. Smaller venturis mean higher velocity. The 2 groove water pump and crank pulleys came on all power steering V8 Broncos and any auto electric shop will have 2 groove alternator pulleys. As to reliability, I've never had a V-belt fail while several serpentine belts have.
The bottom line is, Stefan has most all the parts needed. Late 351 (5.8) or Explorer front dress is going to require a new radiator and none of the parts will be found as EB parts when new ones are needed. The kid with the computer at AutoZone will be lost. Why make the swap a lot more complicated and expensive?

 

[nvrstuk]

Small primaries is another reason that makes the Qjet the best 4bbl carb for us Bronco owners

Qjets I believe have 1" primaries. Air velocity is increased even more and throttle response is more than just a seat of the pants feel... they are amazing. I've built dozens of them for hard core wheelers and a few more for street Broncos.

4bbl EFI...

 

[Stefan]

Thank you all for the info, lots to consider.

So, what has not been gutted from my old 74.
The tanks, the rear is an old factory tank and the underseat tank is aftermarket that I bought about 25 years ago (its a steel tank and I can't remember who I bought it from).
I am looking at carbureted engine because my comfort and confidence in fuel injection is not very good. I can tear down a carb and put it back together, FI not so much. I might look at a Edelbrock matched set for intake and heads? I figure while it is out, get it machined, put some good pistons, cam and stuff on it. Goal is to make it run reliably on pump gas (87) so I am not looking for anything crazy.

I am looking at the idea of running a 700R4 transmission since it has a low 1st and an overdrive and is not electronically controlled.

I used to do a lot of stuff up in the Sierra Nevada mountain range but the Army has bounced me around a LOT so I am now living in Louisiana. I am not interested in mudding and still like offroading which I can find. So, I would like to keep it offroad capable but I am not needing Rubicon or MOAB level offroad capability. I would say 70/30 onroad/offroad, with a trip or two up to CO for some fishing trips with a buddy.

I figure a solid 9" with 31 spline would be a good way to go. I want to keep power steering and would like to convert to power disc brakes.

The 700R4 transmission doesn't work with my J shift so I am wondering if it will work with an Atlas?

What power steering unit would be recommended? My stock/original one is shot.

I am not sure if the current aftermarket headers on the engine will work in the bronco. If they do I can fab up the rest of the exhaust (where there is a welder, there is a way).

When I look at this I feel like I am wanting the moon.

 

[lars]

The '69 351W 4 barrel intake was offered only in 1969 Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos, and Montegos. By 1970 Ford was pushing Clevelands as the 4 barrel choice. For this application a non EGR 2 barrel works as well, and is far easier to find. Again the best years are '69-'72. I use a 4 barrel 4100 with 480 CFM because the primary venturis are smaller than the 1.21" venturis in a 351 sized 2100. Smaller venturis mean higher velocity. The 2 groove water pump and crank pulleys came on all power steering V8 Broncos and any auto electric shop will have 2 groove alternator pulleys. As to reliability, I've never had a V-belt fail while several serpentine belts have.
The bottom line is, Stefan has most all the parts needed. Late 351 (5.8) or Explorer front dress is going to require a new radiator and none of the parts will be found as EB parts when new ones are needed. The kid with the computer at AutoZone will be lost. Why make the swap a lot more complicated and expensive?

Not going to question any of the carb information, but I've had never had a serpentine belt fail in multiple vehicles in decades of use over several hundred thousand miles. Including my Bronco, which has had Explorer dress bolted to the front of the engine for 20 years and 100k+ miles now.

As for the radiator, there is no reason why it has to change. I'm now on the third radiator that's been on my Bronco since it was sold new in 1969, a box stock OEM spec Modine 3 row. Mods required for Explorer front dress were an Explorer-specific fan shroud, purchased from Ron Davis in PHX (though any clever fabricator could create their own), a steel adapter tube at the bottom that utilizes a stock Bronco lower radiator hose cut in half, and a "Pontiac GTO with 400 engine" upper hose that someone figured out years ago would mate a Ford 5.0 lower intake to the stock radiator. All of which has been dead reliable.

I point the latter bit of information out not to disparage vee belts (though at this point I'm firmly in the Explorer front dress camp for the reasons described elsewhere) but to note the utility of the stock radiator. Tangentially, I've had zero overheating problems with my more-or-less stock SEFI Explorer 5.0 swap. A quality stock-spec brass radiator works just fine, especially when there are 7 blades of fan pulling through a proper shroud.

 

[sanndmann3]

If you are tossing serp belts, I'm wondering if its an alignment issue. I've never lost one either.

 

[jckkys]

The fact is, there's no reason to change an EB more than necessary, except to be a wildebeest jumping into the croc infested river with the rest of the herd. Independent thinking must be stamped out here. Sad. Thankfully I did my 351 swap before the idiotic orthodoxy of EFI and Explorer crap being declared the only way to do a swap. I've learned from experience in the 70s-80s that I don't need or have a want for Saginaw pumps, huge tires, lift kits, Cheby heater blower motors, EFI, HydroBoost, Cherokee wiper blades, dual exhaust, headers, and an endless list of crap that doesn't improve the go anywhere do anything vehicle. There were a few things Ford could have done, but didn't want put in the effort. Among those are the 351, better shocks, an electric wiper system that doesn't need a big box around it, and a spare wheel carrier that rattles loose in no time. I fixed those. My Bronco can take on real trails, drive cross country, plow through 2'+ snow, and maneuver better than almost anything in congested streets, parking lots etc. All that while looking better than any other 4X4. My advice is to think for yourself.