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Why do a diesel swap??

kat

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First of all, Im not trying to step on any toes because I know of some beautiful Bronco's in here that owners are doing this and I commend you. Im all for making a car/truck/Bronco YOUR ride, to be different.

I am just trying to understand the positives vs the negatives about it. Aren't the diesel engines heavier than a small block V8? I haven't done much mudding with my '76 but my first Bronco I had back in the 80's I did ALOT of hunting/mudding in it and one of the greatest things about it was that it was light and was smaller than normal trucks and wouldn't get stuck in the 'ruts' that a heavy chevy would make.

Is the power/weight ratio better with a diesel??
 

DirtDonk

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I have not done it, but if I remember the reasoning there are those especially in the off-road crowd that liked the low rpm torque that diesels might be capable of, or already have. Then there is the potential fuel savings as most diesels are at least capable of getting better mileage then their gas counterparts with a similar weight vehicle. I've never achieved big numbers in full size pickups, but many claim to. Others had access to a diesel and wanted to try it. Others just like diesels and are more familiar with them than anything else.

Yes they're heavier per cubic inch, but some of the swaps involve the Cummins 4bt which is a four-cylinder and so is relatively short and relatively narrow compared to V engines. So size is not a huge problem, and though heavy, even the weight is not an insurmountable issue. Now, trying to put a 7.3 V8 diesel in a Bronco, that would be a LOT of work!

I'm sure there are as many reasons as there are those that want to do it. Just not interested myself, as diesel is not my favorite medium even as far as they've come recently.

Paul
 

nvrstuk

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I'm 100% with Paul.

Positives? Different, lot of torque at idle (if you like to idle everywhere), higher mpg

Negatives? Heavy, LOUD, smelly, fuel costs more, no high rpms available to use when needed, costs more to install typically as more custom fab is needed, did I mention loud for a 4bt!! Gotta shift a LOT because your engine rpm range is extremely narrow compared to a gas engine.

I sold my early Dodge Cummins as I got so dang tired of the noise when in town and going slow in the hills. ALL you heard was the engine, no animal sounds, no creek noise, no wind noise.... :( Driving on long trips down a highway like is so common with early diesel p/u's is SO different than hunting in the woods or crawling on a trail as you can't hear a dang thing.

Just my likes/dislikes for early non-common rail diesels in Broncos.
 

69_Sport

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More than one liberal state have announced future plans to outlaw diesel. Something to think about...
 

okie4570

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I came really close to pulling a trigger on a 4bt swap a few years ago, until I road in one. It was a fantastic, clean and beautiful bronco and swap. But the noise man, the noise, turned me away.
 
OP
OP
kat

kat

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I would think that torque would go to waste. I mean, our Bronco's are so light...
 

Pa PITT

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... well I never .... I've got one .. I'm a farmer so I've been on a diesel all my life.
Why I did my SWAP.
... I COULDN'T TAKE MY BRONCO to the pasture that it wasn't hot in 20 minutes .
& I chuckle each spring On this sight ... There'll be a lot of post MY GAS IS GETTING HOT HOW TO FIX IT. swap to diesel.
I Don't even run a fan blade on mine now . I do have an electric fan on mine . & I flip a toggle switch if it gets to 200 but it'll be back to 140 in 3 minutes .
..... but heat was my no 1 reason.
... Fuel mileage... mine got maybe 4 mpg in low range & 1st gear . & That where I run nearly all the time while in the pasture . Mine gets about 10 or 11 in 1st low range ..
I some times get 16 if I'm more in 2nd & 3rd gear. of my NP435.
.............
DEPENDABILITY ... MINE FOR 10 Years was just like a farm tractor . It'd do or go anywhere WITH IT. I'D Driven old 1ST Gens I just knew this 4BT would never move in the mud .. BUT IT DOES. iN ABOUT 13 YEARS I THINK I'VE BEEN STUCK maybe 3 times.
...TORQUE .. Mine will climb at idle in 3rd gear. ... too FAST But it'll sure come out of the creek. My Gas 302 I HAD TO really drive it to get it out of the creek & be in 1st gear.
.. Noisy yes But I'm used to diesels ..Smell .. Well my hunting buddys We've choked while hunting in New Mexico as exhaust comes in the cab from ever angle .
.. Heat in the floor board .. Buddys Ride our feet get scorched some days while hunting 8 hours or so. We got 50K ac to hunt in New Mexico . SO YOU HUNT OUT OF YOUR BRONCO .it's private .. YOU COULdn't HUNT 500AC on foot . We can drive about 15K a day...
... & Having something that different .. Yes that's a biggy also. & This is a good part of being a BRONCO Owner .. Everyone in our Bronco Community just loves to see how you've custom fit your BRONCO to fit your needs .
Mine is like a Farm Service vehicle . Air compressor.. Chains. Toe Hooks. Trailer Hitches .. 25ft Air line on a Reel . Fuel Tank 20 gallon for Tractors . With p/s & bucket seats radio & beer cooler I Can pull Hay Rakes for crops . & I've planted seed pulling a 16ft wide Grain Drill , way more comfortable than a tractor.. I've pulled Harrows busting cow piles in the spring ... Extremely faster than with the tractor. &
.... I'VE EVEN pulled a storage building 16x8 move it on roller logs . It bent my Front Bumper down but the DIESEL Moved the building. I was backing up pulling it so I could better see my work . I have a receiver hitch on the front bumper also.

& I hauled hay on a 18ft flat bed trailer & Bent the back bumper down from the weight I was pulling at idle.
.... I love my Diesel .. BUT I'LL AGREE IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE
 

nvrstuk

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Just a Bronco driver for over 50 yrs!
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KAT, torque never goes to waste in a 5,000# Bronco! :)


Oh, liberal States are also trying to outlaw gas powered vehicles too. Within 10 yrs in our State we won't be able to buy a new gas powered car.
 

tabyers

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Jun 15, 2014
Messages
379
Loc.
Indiana
More torque than a diesel, quieter than a gas powered engine, happy little fishies, electric crate engine, woo-hoo! Sign me up! Not to mention WAY better gas mileage. The future looks bright.
 

71 CA Bronco

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Nov 25, 2015
Messages
761
More torque than a diesel, quieter than a gas powered engine, happy little fishies, electric crate engine, woo-hoo! Sign me up! Not to mention WAY better gas mileage. The future looks bright.

I'm not sure how electric cars make your fish happy. You do realize that over 80% of the electricity consumed (over 90% of the reliable) in the US is generated by fossil fuel. Still need to charge and dispose of those batteries. Just me but I would take the rumble of a 4BT or SBF over an electric buzzing sound any day.
 
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jamesroney

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Fremont, CA
First of all, Im not trying to step on any toes because I know of some beautiful Bronco's in here that owners are doing this and I commend you. Im all for making a car/truck/Bronco YOUR ride, to be different.

I am just trying to understand the positives vs the negatives about it. Aren't the diesel engines heavier than a small block V8? I haven't done much mudding with my '76 but my first Bronco I had back in the 80's I did ALOT of hunting/mudding in it and one of the greatest things about it was that it was light and was smaller than normal trucks and wouldn't get stuck in the 'ruts' that a heavy chevy would make.

Is the power/weight ratio better with a diesel??

Is this a trick question?

There is one HUGE advantage to the Diesel. The total number of electrical wires necessary to keep one running is exactly ZERO. If you can get one started...everything else can be managed by cables.

I've run 8V71 Detroits without batteries alternators, and even without the cab. Once they are running, they keep running. Those new-fangled solenoid fuel cutoffs were the beginning of the end.

In the field, and off road...simplicity, reliability, and ability to repair are vastly more important than efficiency, economy, horsepower and noise.

When the difference between getting home and leaving your Bronco on the trail until Spring is whether your engine is running...the last thing you want is to try to figure out which Tantalum Capacitor has dried out and failed in your ECM...or whether Autozone incorporated Ford's lastest revision update in their TFI module. Or who is going to honor the warranty on your VCT phaser.

Far too many designs are promoted using FMEA's that stop at first failure. The question should not be: What is the effect of a failure?
The question needs to be: What is the remedy after the failure?

The Cummins 4BT is selected because they rarely fail...and when they do fail, they can be serviced in the field with a minimum of technology.

(The Cummins 6BT in the Gen 1 Dodge has a huge following for the same reason.)

Any modern Computer Controlled Diesel Engine CANNOT compete with a similarly controlled Gasoline engine for all of the reasons mention above. (weight, power, NVH, etc...)

When you go to the farm...the Cummins 4BT in the Case 580 Loader is still running. Everything burning gasoline is either new, or dead.
 

nvrstuk

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I'm not sure how electric cars make your fish happy. You do realize that over 80% of the electricity consumed (over 90% of the reliable) in the US is generated by fossil fuel. Still need to charge and dispose of those batteries. Just me but I would take the rumble of a 4BT or SBF over an electric buzzing sound any day.

Wow, not me!!! Give me the power, acceleration and torque of a Tesla over a 4 cyl, smoking, loud- so loud you can barely converse in the cab OR outside the cab... ANYday! :)

But hey, this is what make's customizing rigs so fun... almost everyone does it differently.
 

tabyers

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Jun 15, 2014
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I guess in this future where our government overlords force us to all drive electrics even if our trucks were made in the 60’s, I figured they would have a wind farm or a solar panel hanging around somewhere.
 

nvrstuk

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Jamesroney

Simplicity is good but in this age we need more than good. Can you imagine what the Valleys and skies of NY and LA (or any other city) would look like if everyone drove a 4bt? LOL Are you old enough to remember what those skies looked like almost every day of the year? Mostly due to automobile emissions. Can you imagine what they would look like now with almost 50% more vehicles on those same roads 60 yrs later? It would look like London looked like during the days they used to burn coal for heat... you literally could NOT see across the street and that is fact!

That's our option.

Pollution so thick and hazardous that people literally die on the street because the smoke/emissions are so thick OR a diesel (or car) engine that burns so clean that it can emit less fumes in 100 miles of driving than your old school Briggs and Stratton lawn mower does mowing your lawn which is also FACT.

Sorry but this is where we are today.

Pros and cons of everything but unless the US population gets below about 5-10 million people (arbitrary number) so this small number of people can do whatever they like and trash the US we kinda need to take care of it with 300+ million people living in the US alone.

So bring on the computer controlled diesel trucks so we can see where we are going when driving down the road. :) I don't like all the "wires" and emissions on new gas or diesel rigs but new diesel trucks generate 3-4X the power of the old 12 valve Cummins from the '90's and generate appr 20% of the emissions.

Hard to realize why people wouldn't want clean and power when you can have both at the same time. Doesn't matter much if it's 5-10 million people in the US but it sure does if it's 300+ million people all driving 4bt's. lol
 
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EB70

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Jun 9, 2006
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696
I have a pretty primo first gen Cummins. I really love it. Not the same as a 24V for noise. I like diesels for the simplicity, efficiency and so forth. The MPG works well too. But I like diesels and I don't mind wrenching if I need to once in a while.

I will be honest for me most of the pull is MPG. Other than that, I can live without the rest of the benefits.

If you drive any distances, and have any appreciable tire size diesels make sense. I have both so I am interested in them for sure.
 

nvrstuk

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I don't want folks to think I"m a diesel hater! lol I still own a diesel truck, pulls great, good mpg. Perfect for what I used it for.

BUT the original post was about diesels in Broncos... I strayed but I'm going to say I was tempted to stray! :)

I generate about 140KW/day of electricity at my house on average with solar from March till end of Oct. Less KW generation the rest of the year. Why not? It's free power every day once I got it paid off in 3 yrs.

Like having my own oil well on my farm but without the drill rig, the noise, the pollution, the refinery needs, etc.

Almost anybody with a roof over their heads can do it if the sun shines where they live.
 
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71 CA Bronco

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Nov 25, 2015
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761
Wow, not me!!! Give me the power, acceleration and torque of a Tesla over a 4 cyl, smoking, loud- so loud you can barely converse in the cab OR outside the cab... ANYday! :)

But hey, this is what make's customizing rigs so fun... almost everyone does it differently.

The Tesla's are bad ass for what they are. That's a whole different thread and should include fuel cell in the discussion. I also agree making our rigs the way you want is what is so cool about them. For the record I do not have a diesel Bronco. That's what my Duramax is for. But I do think they are cool and appreciate the talent it takes to do the swap.

I love clean air and do remember the old days of black horizons and don't want to go back to those days, but even if you diesel swap every existing earlier Bronco to a 4BT I don't think it will have any significant effect on the air quality. In my opinion, most are not daily drivers and there are simply not enough on the road to be an environmental concern.

I still like the rumble. It puts a smile on my face. That's what its all about to me. Nothing wrong with differing opinions though. That's why I come to this site to learn what others are doing. Cheers!
 
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kat

kat

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KAT, torque never goes to waste in a 5,000# Bronco! :)


.

Ok, maybe Im confused but torque is used low end, like to pull something like a stump/tree out of the ground. But with a light vehicle on sand/dirt it would just spin wouldn't it??
 

nvrstuk

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Correct. That's why lockers frt & rear for both those situations you mentioned is so important.

Torque gets a heavy Bronco moving and keeps it moving when under a huge load like going thru 3' deep heavy wet snow or sand that is so soft, deep and steep. You might be amazed at how hard the engine works in that stuff.

Example: When running in very deep, heavy wet snow if you have a manual and push in the clutch to upshift it's almost like hitting the brakes as hard as you can. Try for the next gear, lose momentum, shift back down, try it again. Frustrating but most that have never experienced it can't believe it's so severe. In deep heavy snow I can be in 3rd gear, spinning the tires at 45+ mph at 5500-5900 rpm for two minutes at a time- literally. My tranny temp goes up to 170F, my engine temp will push the high side of the t-stat within one minute. The engine load is like being on a dyno. Same for taking off from a start. You need immediate torque to get all 4 spinning or you aren't going to move.

I love snowwheeling like this... ultimate engine & drivetrain workout. :)

Possible the next week in the same area you will have to crawl in low/low gear and not spin a tire. Spin a tire and you sink.
 
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kat

kat

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Correct. That's why lockers frt & rear for both those situations you mentioned is so important.

Torque gets a heavy Bronco moving and keeps it moving when under a huge load like going thru 3' deep heavy wet snow or sand that is so soft, deep and steep. You might be amazed at how hard the engine works in that stuff.

Example: When running in very deep, heavy wet snow if you have a manual and push in the clutch to upshift it's almost like hitting the brakes as hard as you can. Try for the next gear, lose momentum, shift back down, try it again. Frustrating but most that have never experienced it can't believe it's so severe. In deep heavy snow I can be in 3rd gear, spinning the tires at 45+ mph at 5500-5900 rpm for two minutes at a time- literally. My tranny temp goes up to 170F, my engine temp will push the high side of the t-stat within one minute. The engine load is like being on a dyno. Same for taking off from a start. You need immediate torque to get all 4 spinning or you aren't going to move.

I love snowwheeling like this... ultimate engine & drivetrain workout. :)

Possible the next week in the same area you will have to crawl in low/low gear and not spin a tire. Spin a tire and you sink.

I haven't thought of it like that. We never get snow here in Florida but we have plenty of thick mud....the kind of mud that has no water in it. And I have experienced what you explained...going thru the gears and almost hit the steering wheel if your not quick enough with the clutch pedal
Maybe I just don't consider our Bronco's 'heavy' like a 3/4 ton pickup you would normally see a diesel in.
I understand the simplicity of the diesel but I run a small block ford with a 4 barrel and its hard to get any more simpler than that
 
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