New gear reduction starter install

[ba123]

Just like you said…Powermaster said 4 gauge wire up to 7’ and I went 2 gauge.

 

[Steve83]

... big battery cable size charge wires are overkill. ...Ford chose to do it that way after their debacle with the 2G Alternator.

Ford didn't change the battery cable size or the charge cable size because of the 2G. The same sizes were used for the 105A 2G (which wasn't installed after '93) as for the the 95A 3G and for the 130A 3G (which were used through '04). It was always 4ga for gas engine batteries, and always 8ga for alternator output. Same as for most 1G outputs.

 

[DirtDonk]

Interesting. Never saw an 8-gauge wire that was physically that large in diameter.
If they were only 8-gauge, then they had ultra thick jacketing.

The output cable on my 93 F150 was easily 6-gauge. The one on my Explorer is easily 6-gauge as well, but with the fusible link end being double eights perhaps? Double tens maybe?
They’re fairly large, but the main cable from the Alternator to the fusible link and at the Battery is very large. And Original…

I’ve pulled some factory charge cables off of 3G vehicles, including explorers, mountaineers, and full-size vans. I pulled the van wire because it looked even larger than all the rest. And that’s what I was looking for. It was also longer, which I always assumed explained the larger gauge.
I’ll see if I can get pictures and look for any stampings. But they were all the stock black with orange stripe originals.
Or whatever that stripe color is. Pinkish-orange?

Now, back to the 2G, those were probably 8-gauge. But there were two of them. And therein was part of the problem with that design.
I have one of the retrofit connectors for replacing the melted and burned out originals when needed. At least for a time, every replacement aftermarket 2G alternator came with a replacement connector and pigtail.
I’ll see if there are any markings on those wires, but I doubt it.

 

[Steve83]

The output cable on my 93 F150...with the fusible link end being double eights perhaps? Double tens maybe?

You might need to recalibrate your eyes. A '93 F150 should have been built with a 2G. But if it was a late '93, or had a 95A 3G for any other reason, the fusible link on the output cable is always a single Gray 14ga. The 130A 3G has 2, but it wasn't offered on F150s.

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It's the big 6ga Yellow feed wire from the starter relay to the power distribution box that always has 2 Gray 14ga fusible links.

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This page lists the standard fusible link wire colors:

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[DirtDonk]

You might need to recalibrate your eyes. A '93 F150 should have been built with a 2G. But if it was a late '93, or had a 95A 3G for any other reason, the fusible link on the output cable is always a single Gray 14ga. The 130A 3G has 2, but it wasn't offered on F150s.

Pretty sure my eye calibration is fine. Well, halfway decent that is, not perfect.
It was a 95a 3g in fact. The 5.8 engines got them, perhaps of a certain GVWR too? I thought all it took was the 5.8, but why Ford offered both types during that period I'm not sure.
Not a late '93 either. Built in 12/92, so mid-range or thereabout.

Your picture shows a double fusible link at the starter relay. That's the one I took to be from the alternator, not the single. Didn't realize that, so thanks for the diagram. Virtually the same photo as on my '93.

Reason I took it to be from the alternator, is that my only experiences with 3G's until then, had been Explorers and Mountaineers.

Now, back to Explorers, I have worked on several and removed the charge cable from each, as well as 2 Mountaineers (including one from a full-size van). All were at least 6ga, with the very long one from the van being 4ga I believe. I have no proof of this (yet) but if they were smaller, then the outer covering was extremely thick.
And while I don't remember the van having dual fusible link wires, all of the Explorers/Mountaineers save one, were doubles right at the end of the wire.
Oddly, the one Mountaineer that we got for a friend's Bronco had what looked like a factory installed Mega-Fuse. It was a '97 I think, and it made me think that maybe Mountaineers got a different setup, but since it was the only one I ever found, I had to rethink and "assume" that it was installed by a PO or shop. But it sure looked factory!
Wish we'd noted and recorded the vehicle info, in case there was some kind of variation that could be tracked. Just didn't think about that kind of thing back then. That was about 22 years ago or so.

Now that I've said all that, I'll have to go back out and look under the hood of my '68 with Explorer stuff, and see how that was done. It's a stock Explorer cable shortened to fit the Bronco.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

The same sizes were used for the 105A 2G (which wasn't installed after '93) as for the the 95A 3G and for the 130A 3G (which were used through '04).

Are you talking about charge cable size, or battery cable size? The 2G didn't even have one single charge cable to compare to, but had two smaller ones. Are you equating the two smaller ones to the same capacity in a single? Or are you saying there was no change at all?

It was always 4ga for gas engine batteries, and always 8ga for alternator output. Same as for most 1G outputs.

How far back? And what vehicles? My '79 had what I always thought of as the same size as the old Early Bronco. Which all this time I thought was a 10ga wire. Are you saying that the older ones were all 8ga? That's good to know, but sure does not look like aftermarket 8ga wire I have.
Or is that for the newer trucks? Perhaps '80 and newer?
And lastly, did that statement mean that even 3G alternators use 8ga wire? If so, I'll have to call you on that and let's see if the book matches the reality out there. Because they sure look like 6ga and 4ga to my uncalibrated eyes.
Or was that limited to 2g and 1g models?

Maybe I missed the transition while I was concentrating on the fact that a '93 should not have had a 3G and my missing that double fusible link's purpose.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Ok, looks like I have to re-calibrate my eyes (or at least my memory) to the new reality. Just looked at my Explorer setup, and with new thoughts, realized that it's indeed an odd size. Either a small-ish 6ga, or a large-ish 8ga after all. At least compared to most of the aftermarket wiring I see. The 8ga in the kits at the auto parts stores looks smaller, but the 6ga battery cables look larger.
Maybe it's an 8 with that thicker jacket that I mentioned? Must be, because if the book says it's an 8ga, then that's likely what it is.
But at least it does have the dual fusible link wire setup. It's visible right in plain sight with the charge wire.

Now I'm going to have to find some of those that I squirreled away and see if they have gauge stamps on them. That'll either be the proof I'm looking for, or the proof hoping not to find! Don't want to unwrap the harness just yet.

Paul

 

[Steve83]

Are you talking about charge cable size, or battery cable size?

Yeah, looking back, that was ambiguous, but I was thinking about the 4ga battery cables when I wrote no change. I'll try to pay closer attention to matching thoughts to typing.

...Early Bronco. Which all this time I thought was a 10ga wire.

I don't think I've ever seen a genuine eB alternator harness in good enough condition to judge. If you say it's 10 AWG, I'd believe you.

...sure does not look like aftermarket 8ga wire I have.

Modern insulation is different; nearly all is XLPE (PEX) compared to older PVC & other plastics, so there will be significant difference in insulation thickness that will distort anyone's perception.

...ven 3G alternators use 8ga wire? ... Because they sure look like 6ga and 4ga to my uncalibrated eyes.

The battery cables are 4 AWG, so the charge wire is NEVER that big.

...a '93 should not have had a 3G...

That was MY memory getting out-of-calibration. It's '92 that still had 2G - not '93.

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...my Explorer setup...does have the dual fusible link wire setup.

Then it should have a 130A alternator, which was common on later vehicles - even small cars & trucks, like Explorer & Taurus.

Yes, later vehicles got a MEGA fuse in the charge wire. And those MIGHT use a heavier wire. I guess I should check before I post that statement again...

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[DirtDonk]

Great! I knew that mega fuse looked factory, but it was the only one I had ever seen.

 

[73azbronco]

point to add, i tried two mean green starters, they fried themsleves, but the old ford pickup mini starter works great, way cheaper, easier to source.