302 oil pump not pumping?

[Gas Pig]

Ok I’m on the last stretch of my family build bronco. Of all things I didn’t expect is any issues with the motor. In short I picked this motor because I heard it run and it ran great and someone had at least gone through top end.

Anyhow the project took me a lot longer then expected so the motor sat on my engine stand around 3 years. So I got to fire it took a little while but got it running for about 4 minutes at shut it off because the valves sounded noisy. I popped the passenger valve cover and it wasn’t bone dry but certainly didn’t look like much oil was getting up there. Next I popped the distributor. I didn’t have a oil pump priming tool and of course the local auto parts didn’t either. So I used a 1/4” deep well socket and a long extension to spin the oil pump shaft. Anyways it seemed to engage the pump shaft and after spinning it with the drill I saw no oil working it’s way up the the rocker arms.

Maybe the pump actually went bad from sitting or maybe my socket really didn’t engage on the pump shaft?

Any thoughts??? Before I drop this oil pan?

 

[Tiko433]

My two thoughts
Drill spinning the right way
Did shaft pop out the pump
Not likely it would go bad just sitting

 

[ared77]

"Drill spinning the right way" which is counter-clockwise

 

[73azbronco]

If oil pump is turning correct way, it mostly feels like the drill will snap your wrist off.

 

[broncnaz]

its a gear pump if it spins it should start pumping these rarely fail even if worn it should pump but it may no have much pressure. might take a few minutes if the filter is new as it has to fill up as well. also keep in mind you should feel it take more torque to turn the pump once it starts pumping.

 

[Gas Pig]

Yes I was spinning the pump counter clockwise. The drill did not fell like there was any toque on it at all. Yes the filter was new but the motor did run a few minutes before I shut it off because of it being noisy. Once again the motor was gone through by PO and it sounded great before it sat.

Maybe my make shift oil priming tool really wasn’t getting to the shaft?

I know someone who has the correct priming tool. I’ll try to get a hold of him tomorrow and borrow it.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Stupid question, did you check if there is oil in the engine? Oil pump can't pump if there isn't any oil to pump.

Between when you heard the engine run 3 years ago and now, did you ever remove the pan? possibly to change to a Bronco pan? Thinking pickup tube issues.

At this point I would probably be pulling the engine and dropping the pan, time to have a look at what is going on. Have a close inspection of the bearings after being run so long after sitting years and hot having oil.

 

[Wild horse 75]

Yes I was spinning the pump counter clockwise. The drill did not fell like there was any toque on it at all. Yes the filter was new but the motor did run a few minutes before I shut it off because of it being noisy. Once again the motor was gone through by PO and it sounded great before it sat.

Maybe my make shift oil priming tool really wasn’t getting to the shaft?

I know someone who has the correct priming tool. I’ll try to get a hold of him tomorrow and borrow it.

What you used for a priming tool is all I ever used in all the years I worked in a ford performance shop. I would put a wrap of tape on the socket to extension to ensure I didn’t have to ever go chasing it in the oil pan. So it’s not the tool. The pump shaft can fall out of the pump and sit right beside where it engages the pump and still engage the bottom of the distributor if it doesn’t have the one way clip on it to prevent the distributor from pulling it out. If you reach down with a long screwdriver you shouldn’t be able to move the shaft around at all. If it can move around it may have come out of the pump. You should be able to see it in the pump with a small bright flashlight.

 

[Gas Pig]

Stupid question, did you check if there is oil in the engine? Oil pump can't pump if there isn't any oil to pump.

Between when you heard the engine run 3 years ago and now, did you ever remove the pan? possibly to change to a Bronco pan? Thinking pickup tube issues.

At this point I would probably be pulling the engine and dropping the pan, time to have a look at what is going on. Have a close inspection of the bearings after being run so long after sitting years and hot having oil.

Yes, put in 6 quarts of oil with a fresh oil filter. The pan was never removed from the motor. After I heard it run. Does the pan look like it was pulled when they did work to it… yes but not since it last ran.

 

[Gas Pig]

What you used for a priming tool is all I ever used in all the years I worked in a ford performance shop. I would put a wrap of tape on the socket to extension to ensure I didn’t have to ever go chasing it in the oil pan. So it’s not the tool. The pump shaft can fall out of the pump and sit right beside where it engages the pump and still engage the bottom of the distributor if it doesn’t have the one way clip on it to prevent the distributor from pulling it out. If you reach down with a long screwdriver you shouldn’t be able to move the shaft around at all. If it can move around it may have come out of the pump. You should be able to see it in the pump with a small bright flashlight.

Yep, I can see the shaft with a flashlight. Mater of fact I a magnet to pull the shaft thinking it was like the 170’s that simply slide right out. But it would start to come up and hit a stop (or retaining clip).

I also taped the socket and extension so I don’t drop anything in the motor.

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, it is possible for an oil pump to go dry and lose its prime. I would remove the oil filter and spin the hex shaft to see if the oil is flowing. The first place oil goes is through the filter. It is possible to prime the oil pump by squirting oil into the port where the filter screws on. Good luck

 

[Gas Pig]

Hi, it is possible for an oil pump to go dry and lose its prime. I would remove the oil filter and spin the hex shaft to see if the oil is flowing. The first place oil goes is through the filter. It is possible to prime the oil pump by squirting oil into the port where the filter screws on. Good luck

That thought did cross my mind that pump lost its prime. But it’s a great tip on priming the pump by back filling it through the filter.

Thanks and I’ll try that later today.

 

[Gas Pig]

Hi, it is possible for an oil pump to go dry and lose its prime. I would remove the oil filter and spin the hex shaft to see if the oil is flowing. The first place oil goes is through the filter. It is possible to prime the oil pump by squirting oil into the port where the filter screws on. Good luck

Well wasn’t on my side… tried removing the filter and priming the pump through the filter port. Spun it with the drill with no luck. I guess I’m pulling the motor now.

 

[DirtDonk]

I’m very interested to hear what you find.
It’s the first case I remember ever hearing about our type of pump losing its prime (even that takes a long time usually) and not self re-priming itself almost instantly upon spinning.
They are very efficient and very robust and very reliable.
Usually…

When you “heard it run“ previously, how long was it running?

 

[Gas Pig]

I’m very interested to hear what you find.
It’s the first case I remember ever hearing about our type of pump losing its prime (even that takes a long time usually) and not self re-priming itself almost instantly upon spinning.
They are very efficient and very robust and very reliable.
Usually…

When you “heard it run“ previously, how long was it running?

It was in a bronco we bought and it sat running in the parking lot for 45 min. I jumped in the truck hit gas pedal and sounded crisp. I drove the truck over the trailer and loaded by driving it up on the trailer. We were 2 hrs from home and was wanting to drive it back home.

I have been collecting parts for this build a long time… maybe to long. But the motor was one of the things I wasn’t concerned about. Honestly very disappointing because I thought I was on the home stretch.

 

[DirtDonk]

I can understand that!
Very sorry to hear that you have to do something unplanned, even as basic as removing the oil pan.
Well, “basic” it may be, except for it being a bronco oil pan!

 

[Gas Pig]

I can understand that!
Very sorry to hear that you have to do something unplanned, even as basic as removing the oil pan.
Well, “basic” it may be, except for it being a bronco oil pan!

Yep lesson learned… trust but verify. Next time I’ll prove out everything especially after sitting a while. I guess it was possible the pump was bad even while it was running the 45 min? I wouldn’t think so because we would have heard it start making noise in that time. I’m thinking maybe the pickup tube let loose in the time of running it and it going in my truck? I’ll know once I pull the motor and then the pan.

 

[m_m70]

I’ll know once I pull the motor and then the pan.

why not just pull the pan?

 

[brewchief]

Once the pan is off I'd pull at least one main and rod cap and inspect the bearings, if it sat long enough that the oil pump lost its prime and it never made oil pressure then I would expect everything to have been pretty dry.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[Gas Pig]

why not just pull the pan?

I thought that as well. But after asking my engine rebuilder said even running only 4 minutes without oil would cause issues. He is like why use the time dropping the pan instead of pulling it. So, I guess its a fair point.